Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure

[dagon2647]

Hi,

Sorry I searched the thread and I could not find how the problem manifests.

What happened:
1. I just changed oil in my Crosstar
2. Drove car back home
3. 2 days after on start:
a) Both amber and red brake system indicators are constantly on
b) Everything in honda sense dependent on braking (ACC/ Hill assist/ Anti collision) -  all amber.
c) "ES" warning is shown
d)  When braking the pedal is stiffer on the end if on Drive/Reverse/Breaking. Car stops with a delay

My VIN is on the recall list and I am trying to understand if the mechanic who changed the oil managed to do something wrong or is it just good timing?

[JB]

From the reading of this it sounds like just one of those things unless the
mechanic did disturb something to bring it on, I would go back and ask
what the procedure was for the job he did.

[Kremmen]

My take on the failure is brake fluid getting past a seal and interfering with some electronics ?

Maybe the mechanic had cause to press the brake pedal hard that helped force fluid past an already deteriorated seal

I've always wondered whether those who had the failure were using brakes more than others. Does brake hold for example use excessive pressure on the hydraulics

All just guesswork though

[Nicksey]

My take on the failure is brake fluid getting past a seal and interfering with some electronics ?

Maybe the mechanic had cause to press the brake pedal hard that helped force fluid past an already deteriorated seal

I've always wondered whether those who had the failure were using brakes more than others. Does brake hold for example use excessive pressure on the hydraulics

All just guesswork though

This was my understanding too. I recall something about the seal being placed the wrong way round too i.e. the indent shapes not fitting the faces properly. You might be right about the 'brake hold' as well. I never use it, and rely on the hand brake at every stop only. In B mode around town etc. I hardly touch the brakes at all.

[Kremmen]

Same here

No brake hold
B mode all the time (don't want ACC, tried it and didn't like it, kept putting the brakes on then hard acceleration)

[Jazzik]

In my opinion brake hold will not have any influence regarding this brake failure.
If it did, our brakes would have had that failure years ago, because we use brake hold day and night (yes, with working brake light..) so to speak.
But after more than 3½ years the sensor was replaced before any brake problem occurred.

[Pippa24]

I had my brake simulation recall done last Wednesday- had no problem with my brakes before then. They felt very soft after it was done and the next day my brakes failed. I couldn’t get above 20 and could just smell burning rubber. Car is back with dealer and they are waiting on Honda to advise what to do next. All four brake pads now need replacing. Anyone else had similar or know what happened before to the brakes they caused the recall?  Many  thanks

[Kremmen]

Had mine done a few weeks ago and no issues

[Nicksey]

I had my brake simulation recall done last Wednesday- had no problem with my brakes before then. They felt very soft after it was done and the next day my brakes failed. I couldn’t get above 20 and could just smell burning rubber. Car is back with dealer and they are waiting on Honda to advise what to do next. All four brake pads now need replacing. Anyone else had similar or know what happened before to the brakes they caused the recall?  Many  thanks

Sounds like the electronics need re-setting. I assume the simulator does exactly that, and applies the brake like the old servo units did.. so maybe needs adjusting to lift the pads off.

[Kremmen]

I would guess each franchise has full instructions on what to do in detail so your franchise didn't follow the guide

[Don]

My 71 plate crosstar was booked on for replacement yesterday but had a last minute call from the Honda dealership telling me that the parts hadn't arrived but couldn't say exactly when they will be available.

[DemoDave]

I had a letter from Honda identifying my vehicle (HONDA JAZZ) and stating that there was a brake operating simulator fault and called this a ' product  update', which posed NO safety implications whatsoever.
 I received the letter just days before a very bad accident,caused by complete brake failure. 
The car is a write off.   Two Injuries, two damage vehicles and no warning whatsoever, This should have been a recall, DO NOT DRIVE  - RECALL NOTICE. 
I can't tell you how terrifying it is to be sitting in the drivers seat, helplessly standing on a unresponsive brake pedal as the car, seemingly with a trajectory of it's own, hurtles towards the rear of a very solid Bin Wagon!!
The Insurance paid out, but do not seem interested whatsoever in pursuing HONDA, who are the real culprits .
I have reported the incident to the DVSA, who are investigating.  I know I am now in a very long queue for justice, but does anyone know of a JOINT CIVIL ACTION? 
I have now bought a Yaris and seem to have got a better car entirely

[AED]

Thanks to you both for your replies. Repairing the fault cost £2200 in round figures. The car was6 months out of warranty and only about 15000miles on the clock. I contacted Honda uk saying that I thought this must be a fault and they blatantly lied saying that they weren’t aware that this was a problem. This was in April last year. I’m furious!
Honda Uk replied to an email that I needed to contact the dealer that did the repair and they would help me make a claim to Honda. The service manager has been fobbing me off - apologising for not getting round to contacting Honda not being available and not calling back. Further contact to Honda UK customer services said that they’d contacted the manager and asked him to contact me directly. That was 2 weeks ago and I haven’t heard from him. I agree that Honda hasn’t got a leg to stand on and will battle on.

[Kremmen]

Complete brake failure, interesting, Honda say that can't happen

See what investigations reveal

Enjoy your Yaris (an obvious advert) but people here who have tested Jazz and Yaris back to back all reckon the Jazz is superior in so many areas

[davejazz]

I had a letter from Honda identifying my vehicle (HONDA JAZZ) and stating that there was a brake operating simulator fault and called this a ' product  update', which posed NO safety implications whatsoever.
 I received the letter just days before a very bad accident,caused by complete brake failure. 
The car is a write off.   Two Injuries, two damage vehicles and no warning whatsoever, This should have been a recall, DO NOT DRIVE  - RECALL NOTICE. 
I can't tell you how terrifying it is to be sitting in the drivers seat, helplessly standing on a unresponsive brake pedal as the car, seemingly with a trajectory of it's own, hurtles towards the rear of a very solid Bin Wagon!!
The Insurance paid out, but do not seem interested whatsoever in pursuing HONDA, who are the real culprits .
I have reported the incident to the DVSA, who are investigating.  I know I am now in a very long queue for justice, but does anyone know of a JOINT CIVIL ACTION? 
I have now bought a Yaris and seem to have got a better car entirely

DemoDave, what a horrible thing to occur…..Good luck with your Yaris.
You say the insurance paid out; so how long ago did this happen?
Yes, I thought this was impossible, with all cars having dual circuit brakes.

I know that 30 years ago, your mind would have caused your left hand, to yank up the old style handbrake,
but the new electronic brake, needs to be seen, rather than felt!

I wonder if, on another day, on the open road, you had operated the electronic handbrake on the move, would you have stopped? I believe that it works on all four wheels. Obviously, ….no criticism of your driving.