2030 sale of petrol cars

[culzean]

As I said in an earlier post it says everything about electric vehicles that the force of law has to be used to get people to buy them, if they were the right vehicle at the right price people would be queuing up to buy them....

13% of new car registrations this year are EV, are these people all being forced to buy them?

As an early adopter, I think many EV buyers expect to pay more, that doesn't mean the technology is wrong. If there was no progress, we would still be going to work on donkeys.

Yes but the buyers have been subsidised by taxpayers, that means people with money have been subsidised by people with less money to buy a more expensive vehicle.  Taxpayers money has been spent on equipping Police forces with BMW i3 cars that are not fast enough to catch even a standard Fiesta, they are currently being used to take flatcaps to lunch and other important stuff.   Electric ambulances without the range to do much except ferry people around taking them home from hospital etc.  Pretty much all progress has been unstoppable without resorting to law, once people are able to buy better products they flock to get them, not so with BEV. 

[Jocko]

I remember seeing two photographs of an American city, possibly New York, and in the first, there was one car among dozens of horse-drawn vehicles. It was difficult to find the one horse among a sea of motor vehicles in the second, and they were taken about five years apart.

[sparky Paul]

Yes but the buyers have been subsidised by taxpayers, that means people with money have been subsidised by people with less money to buy a more expensive vehicle.

Not just electric car sales that have been encouraged by subsidy. You don't remember the vehicle scrappage scheme?

Anyway, why not encourage less polluting vehicles? It is estimated that there are 5000 premature deaths a year caused by road transport emissions in the UK, three times the number killed on the roads, and many thousands more that suffer life long illness.

There are times when legislation has to lead when it comes to the public good. If it wasn't for bathing water legislation and the work that was done to clean up sewage systems, we would still have raw sewage soup washing on beaches all over the UK. I'm sure there would have been many taxpayers that would have refused to pay for that, given the chance.

[JimSh]

Plus ca change
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sewage-discharge-water-companies-rivers-2020-b1825107.html

"Fifes got beaches (finest in the country),
If you don't mind the sewage floatin' round your toes,
Costa the East Neuk,
Man it makes you want tae puke,
If you want tae go in fur a dook,
Ye have tae haud yer nose."

John Watt

[Jocko]

Not any longer. Fife has some of the best Blue Flag beaches (and one radioactive one).

[JimSh]

Apologies Jocko. As I said earlier the song's probably 50 years old.
EU directives and an SNP Government have worked wonders. 

(and one radioactive one).

Maybe more than one (assuming you're meaning Dalgetty Bay)

"Rosyth dockyaird (finest in the country),
if ye want a cushy joab workin' for the state,
There's auld folk, blind folk,
holiday inclined folk,
and if ye want a submarine, just hurl it oot the gate."

Sorry about the digression.

[madasafish]

I would have thought it would have been sensible to start phasing out the larger capacity and more uneconomical ICE vehicles before it banned them completely.

It is not logical to ban large ICEs first when the UK manufacturers Land Rovers, Jaguars, Rolls Royce and Bentley cars.. - all with engine capacities of 2 litres and over. And relatively few small cars.

[Jocko]

"Rosyth dockyaird (finest in the country),

Once again, now owned by Babcock Marine. Privatised in 1997. Workforce decimated.

[JimSh]

I would have thought it would have been sensible to start phasing out the larger capacity and more uneconomical ICE vehicles before it banned them completely.

It is not logical to ban large ICEs first when the UK manufacturers Land Rovers, Jaguars, Rolls Royce and Bentley cars.. - all with engine capacities of 2 litres and over. And relatively few small cars.

They could all be redeployed to manufacture Boris's eco-friendly tanks FFS.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/29/challenger-charger-army-will-roll-electric-tanks-battle-climate/

PS The article was published a couple of days ago. Not this morning.
But brings us back on topic.

[madasafish]

Can you imagine a battery powered tank operating  (say) in Germany in a big field miles from anywhere and have to stop 30 minutes to recharge - but finding 1. no socket fits and 2. no more than mains current is available.(Meanwhile the Russians shell the nearby power distribution system and the British tank is literally powerless)

They should fire the muppet who thought of it and whomever thought it was a good idea.

[John Ratsey]

I would have thought it would have been sensible to start phasing out the larger capacity and more uneconomical ICE vehicles before it banned them completely.

A progressively increasing carbon tax would provide a strong incentive for people to change to vehicles with lower running costs and/or drive more economically. However, firmer action may be needed for those with too much money and are happy to drive gas guzzlers irrespective of the cost.

[ColinB]

They could all be redeployed to manufacture Boris's eco-friendly tanks FFS.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/29/challenger-charger-army-will-roll-electric-tanks-battle-climate/

PS The article was published a couple of days ago. Not this morning.
But brings us back on topic.

Can’t read that article because of the paywall, but if it really refers to “electric tanks” then the writer needs to actually look at the outcome of the defence review rather than inventing clickbait garbage. Try these:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/summary-of-the-uk-defence-review/
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/974661/CP411_-Defence_Command_Plan.pdf
There’s plenty of topics in there for armchair critics to get their teeth into, but “electric tanks” isn’t one of them.

[Jocko]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/from-challenger-to-charger-army-will-roll-out-electric-tanks-to-battle-climate-change/ar-BB1f68vH

They are talking about unmanned tanks powered by "renewable energy". Nuclear is renewable energy, as is hydrogen. Perhaps 10 - 15 years they envisage a tank powered by a mini nuclear reactor?

[JimSh]

Thanks for the link Jocko.
I still think publication of the article should have been delayed by a couple of days.

[culzean]

Can you imagine a battery powered tank operating  (say) in Germany in a big field miles from anywhere and have to stop 30 minutes to recharge - but finding 1. no socket fits and 2. no more than mains current is available.(Meanwhile the Russians shell the nearby power distribution system and the British tank is literally powerless)

They should fire the muppet who thought of it and whomever thought it was a good idea.

The solar panels will form part of the tanks armour.....