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Just a quicky.
I gather that some of you are not happy with the above.
Hopefully Honda will upgrade it soon for the Jazz, to the HR-V version, as I have found no problem with it at all.
All that happens is that the warning notice pops onto the left dashboard screen telling you it has been activated and sometimes, depending how near the edge of the road I actually am, it gives a very gentle 'twitch' on the steering wheel.
Far more annoying, I find, are the lane departure warning and hands on steering wheel warnings,. First is over sensitive and the second doesn't like you driving one handed!!
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I will still turn it off.
There are many instances, where I can see the road for hundreds of yards ahead, and I can quite safely slightly cut a corner. It makes for a smoother drive rather than the fixed Scalextric style RDMS wants when it spots a white line infringement.
Like the instance where I was on a straight road, I could see for hundreds of yards both front and rear, nothing around, no vehicles, no pedestrians. I overtook an empty parked lorry, no need to indicate to no one so I got the annoying wobbly steering wheel.
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I think the Japs have over thought this system, its a blxxdy nuisance..
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Just turn it all off
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This isn't the Japanese but the obviously bored non drivers at NCAP.
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If its purely a software update it would be hard to justify not doing it.
But if there are hardware changes such as to the camera ,it may not be feasible.
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This isn't the Japanese but the obviously bored non drivers at NCAP.
Yup, they are implementing all these 'safety' devices to justify their jobs, but the downside is that unlike ABS ( which takes over braking in an emergency because nobody can 'cadence brake' like rally drivers do ) and VSLA - see previous comment on ABS, these new devices actually cause problems in real life driving situations, but also lull drivers into 'I don't need to concentrate because the car is doing it for me'... Which is the downfall of 'semi-autonomous' vehicles that expect the driver to wake up and take over in an emergency that the pseudo automation cannot handle - it just does not happen like that because either you are in charge of the vehicle or the automation is - there is really no halfway house. If you are in charge of the vehicle you need to be fully concentrating and fully aware what is happening.
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I overtook an empty parked lorry, no need to indicate to no one so I got the annoying wobbly steering wheel.
But since you could/should/had to know that the annoying wobbly steering wheel was coming, why does it still annoy you?
Moreover, no need to indicate doesn't mean that you can't, just a short tap on the turn signal lever and you avoid that annoying wobbly steering wheel, right?
Besides, how could you know that the lorry was empty? The driver could have stopped for a pee break and possibly get out at any moment. So, indicate, drive past with enough distance and if there was indeed someone in the truck, you showed him that you give space.
We all know that these systems are there and why they are there. And it's not too difficult to (learn to) live with them, in my experience...
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I'd hope we could have a software update - it's a pain having to always go through the menus, cancelling screens, to get to the setting to turn it off.
The crossing a white line message/steering input would be fine if that was all it did - it's the putting you head on into other traffic because it thinks the road is too narrow that's a pain.
Plus the steering feel is purer with it turned off - I don't know why that should be, steering feel should be the same unless the system is activated?
Maybe with RDMS on standby waiting to take over it is 'connected' to the steering and causes a slight increase in steering weight when active?
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I overtook an empty parked lorry, no need to indicate to no one so I got the annoying wobbly steering wheel.
But since you could/should/had to know that the annoying wobbly steering wheel was coming, why does it still annoy you?
Moreover, no need to indicate doesn't mean that you can't, just a short tap on the turn signal lever and you avoid that annoying wobbly steering wheel, right?
Besides, how could you know that the lorry was empty? The driver could have stopped for a pee break and possibly get out at any moment. So, indicate, drive past with enough distance and if there was indeed someone in the truck, you showed him that you give space.
We all know that these systems are there and why they are there. And it's not too difficult to (learn to) live with them, in my experience...
I totally disagree.
I indicate when it's going to benefit another road user or pedestrian. Indicating can also confuse others if not performed correctly. How many times have you seen drivers indicating to come off a roundabout before they've cleared the previous exit, happens a lot.
RDMS also triggers for some shiny road repair joins.
My RDMS gets turned off and my driving is not interrupted by incorrect information.
However, if RDMS suits your driving style then that's your choice to leave it on.
How the IAM sees indicating, note the penultimate paragraph that covers overtaking parked vehicles :
https://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php/articles/associate-s-guide/56-signalling
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It is clear that the rules may differ from country to country.
Here in Poland (and also in Germany and the Netherlands) you are obliged to indicate when you leave your lane (even if only partially, for example to pass a cyclist). It doesn't matter whether there is other traffic or not, it's just an obligation. And the result is no wobbly steering wheel, because you indicated. :D
So here's probably what happened in your case with the lorry. You (partly or almost) left your lane, (almost or completely) crossed the line and your Lane Keeping Assist System did its job.
And great that you gave this link!
https://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php/articles/associate-s-guide/56-signalling
I started reading from the beginning and surprise, surprise!!! What do I read in the first paragraph?
The purpose of signals is to‘…inform other road users of your presence and intentions.'
Obvious isn't it! "Give a signal whenever it could benefit other road users. You may also need to give a signal to override lane-changing technology" (Roadcraft 2020 page 152). https://www.police-foundation.org.uk/project/roadcraft/
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RDMS settings can be changed by a software update to cars in the UK and EU.
My New Zealand Jazz has the option in the control settings to permanently set RDMS to Warning Only - I am using this option.
My guess is that RDMS always on at startup is set by Honda UK to get the NCAP rating.
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How can I turn it off permanently....????
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How can I turn it off permanently....????
you can't at present (in the UK), has to be turned off each time the car is switched on
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You can't.
I sometimes forget but I'm now so familiar with the button presses that can do it safely on the move.
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Just a quicky.
I gather that some of you are not happy with the above.
Hopefully Honda will upgrade it soon for the Jazz, to the HR-V version, as I have found no problem with it at all.
All that happens is that the warning notice pops onto the left dashboard screen telling you it has been activated and sometimes, depending how near the edge of the road I actually am, it gives a very gentle 'twitch' on the steering wheel.
Far more annoying, I find, are the lane departure warning and hands on steering wheel warnings,. First is over sensitive and the second doesn't like you driving one handed!!
...That's already how my RDMS works now.
As for the LKAS it also works fine for me, activates at above 45mph but continues to work back down to 40.
As long as you move the steering wheel occasionally it'll continue to steer for you. It doesn't need 'hands' on the wheel as it's only the slight wheel movement that is detected/required.
It's not a perfect system, I doubt any car has one, but it all works well for me. I do indicate 99% of the time so the RDMS intrusion is minimal, reasonably predictable and minor in activation.
I bought a car with all these features with the intention of using them. I'm not sure of the rationale behind switching off (or not switching them on/using them in the first place) all the features that drew me to the car in the first place.
I had a MK2 before for 145,000 miles and 11 years. I enjoy driving the new Jazz along with all of its new features.
I could've saved some money and bought a different car without these features or maybe an older MK3 but I didn't.
I realize not everyone is happy with their car/features and don't use some of the functions they've paid for, which is a shame as I think it is a pretty darn good overall package. I would alter/tweak a few things but other than that it is spot on :)
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I accept that RDMS is probably OK on motorways and similar roads, but on narrow country lanes, I believe it is downright dangerous.
Many times, when pulling close to the verge to miss an approaching car, I've had the RDMS try to steer me into the path of that approaching car, not funny at all!!
We certainly need the option to enable/disable RDMS, as required, by the driver.
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I accept that RDMS is probably OK on motorways and similar roads, but on narrow country lanes, I believe it is downright dangerous.
Many times, when pulling close to the verge to miss an approaching car, I've had the RDMS try to steer me into the path of that approaching car, not funny at all!!
We certainly need the option to enable/disable RDMS, as required, by the driver.
My brother found the same on his Suzuki, also the auto braking was a pain on narrow roads and with hedges and also with parked cars. I wonder why drivers cannot see the white lines for themselves ? One thing is for sure, when white lines not visible to humans the RDMS goes awol anyway, and it also responds to 'anomalies' in the road surface like banding, which is everywhere. The best thing my brother found was adaptive cruise control, useful but still not perfect. Apart from ACC everything else is turned off...
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Hundreds of years ago SHELL made taking the IAM test compulsory for all company car drivers. I leapt at the chance and was the first person in SHELL UK to pass the test. I went on to be an IAM instructor and to become such we had to be passed to Police class 3 level (no high speed pursuit involved obviously) by the head of the local traffic division. A class one driver, rank of Superintendent.
According to the Police 'Blue Book' of Police driving instructions at the time, one should ALWAYS signal for the 'UNSEEN MAN'.
Interestingly, the Dorset Constabulary 'straight lined' clear corners, whereas the Hampshire lot would always drive 'round' the bends. Dorset thinking was in my mind correct as any time your car is not driving in a straight line, it is less stable. (at hight speed).
The HR-V RDMS can be turned off by pressing the button below, scrolling the left hand roller on the steering wheel and turning off whichever safety function is not required.
I admit I have not tried it as none of the systems bother me. I think the HR-V RDMS must be less violent than that on the MKlV Jazz, judging by some of the comments I have seen.
(https://i.imgur.com/GmR2VO6.png)
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I accept that RDMS is probably OK on motorways and similar roads, but on narrow country lanes, I believe it is downright dangerous.
Many times, when pulling close to the verge to miss an approaching car, I've had the RDMS try to steer me into the path of that approaching car, not funny at all!!
We certainly need the option to enable/disable RDMS, as required, by the driver.
I've had a similar experience. There is a stretch of road near us where the single carriageway widens to 3 lanes at the lights. Necessarily these lanes are narrower than the main carriageway. As I pull into, or rather stay in the left lane (where you can either turn left or go straight ahead the RDMs tries to nudge me back into the centre of the road. The option of indicating is not a valid procedure because I am going straight on.
This is why I, now, routinely, turn it off. That's a bigger faff than it should be as well. I press the button by my right knee and it then takes ages for the relevant screen to come up so you can use the little knurled wheel to turn it off and then the home button to return to your chosen display. I often think I might be causing more danger by waiting for the right screen to come up, I am distracted.
It should be easier to turn off. To say I hate RDMS is an understatement. I just can't see that it is, in any meaningful sense of the word, a safety feature.
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I accept that RDMS is probably OK on motorways and similar roads, but on narrow country lanes, I believe it is downright dangerous.
Many times, when pulling close to the verge to miss an approaching car, I've had the RDMS try to steer me into the path of that approaching car, not funny at all!!
We certainly need the option to enable/disable RDMS, as required, by the driver.
To the guys who think RDMS is acceptable, one question.
Do you ever drive on narrow country roads????
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...In Derbyshire, yes.
If the road is that narrow I will be travelling pretty slow at the time that I would be moving to the verge and the RDMS isn't going to kick in at such a low pace.
At higher speeds I haven't been thrown into the path of anything with such force that It wasn't easy to correct.
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I accept that RDMS is probably OK on motorways and similar roads, but on narrow country lanes, I believe it is downright dangerous.
Many times, when pulling close to the verge to miss an approaching car, I've had the RDMS try to steer me into the path of that approaching car, not funny at all!!
We certainly need the option to enable/disable RDMS, as required, by the driver.
To the guys who think RDMS is acceptable, one question.
Do you ever drive on narrow country roads????
I really think you must have sensitivity settings higher than mine. Mine occasionally twitches unexpectedly for things like shiney joins in the road or an oncoming vehicles and sometimes the proximity to the edge of the road in certain circumstances .But I've often driven down narrow and single track roads with nothing activating . And when it does twitch, or give visual and audible warnings its never been a big deal, or thrown me uncontrollably off course. I simply use proactive action such as a slight movement of the steering to indicate that "'yes I do know what I am doing, but thank you for asking
And as others have found it can get less over time, suggesting that maybe you are adapting your speeds and positioning for the better. Its worth persevering.
It can help if your passenger is aware that the occasional warning light and beep is not a sign of your inattention or incompetence (except when it is)
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Each to their own I suppose.
In my case I know exactly where I am in relation to the road and other vehicles and I'd rather RDMS didn't pseudo criticise my driving.
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Each to their own I suppose.
In my case I know exactly where I am in relation to the road and other vehicles and I'd rather RDMS didn't pseudo criticise my driving.
each to their own as you say. "the computer says no" ;D .
I concede that most drivers are unlikely to ever need it to intervene. . But just maybe ... . I'm happy enough with it on my current settings to leave a safety measure running , however unlikely it is that I will need it. Maybe if it had nice lady voice control making gentle but respectful suggestions? :-*
I think I said before I once has a silly thought when driving my old Yaris that the RDMS was well controlled. Of course it is, there isnt any. It will never do anything to stop me driving into a ditch.
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...It relates back to whether we are all describing/experiencing the same thing. It's still hard to judge what one person calls a severe 'grab' of the wheel and another may say was a slight vibration that was barely noticeable.
If that's the case then the conversation may well be as fruitless as Tomato, Tomato :D
On the other hand we may well actually have different strengths connected to the same settings, in this case relating to RDMS.
I know that my closest setting on ACC is way nearer than Kremmen's which may indicate not all our cars are equal!
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"Give a signal whenever it could benefit other road users."
That is my understanding. I must add pedestrians to the list of people who need to know what you are about to do
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I mostly indicate when crossing the white line, more so since I got this car.
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At the end of the day we all decide whether RDMS is on or off and nobody is 'right', personal preference.
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I think I said before I once has a silly thought when driving my old Yaris that the RDMS was well controlled. Of course it is, there isnt any. It will never do anything to stop me driving into a ditch.
VSA ( vehicle stability assist ) may stop you driving into a ditch if road conditions too bad for speed you are going and car starts to skid, the VSA looks at position of steering wheels relative to accelerometers saying which way car is actually moving and selectively applies brakes to straighten up the car) but RDMS ? Nah-- when the car is traveling sideways it can beep all it wants and rattle the steering till the cows come home, you will still end up in the ditch. And LKS, good luck with finding decent lane markings on most rural roads... especially around by us. What is really needed is a pothole avoidance system, to save me spending more time inspecting the road surface than is healthy when driving.
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Road surfaces are about to get worse! Rural local authorities have had their funding for pothole repairs slashed for 2022/23 while £5bn has been allocated to urban and cities, inevitably more cycle lanes and no-go for motorists roads while rural roads revert to farm tracks and pot-holed nightmares.
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I think I said before I once has a silly thought when driving my old Yaris that the RDMS was well controlled. Of course it is, there isnt any. It will never do anything to stop me driving into a ditch.
VSA ( vehicle stability assist ) may stop you driving into a ditch if road conditions too bad for speed you are going and car starts to skid, the VSA looks at position of steering wheels relative to accelerometers saying which way car is actually moving and selectively applies brakes to straighten up the car) but RDMS ? Nah-- when the car is traveling sideways it can beep all it wants and rattle the steering till the cows come home, you will still end up in the ditch. And LKS, good luck with finding decent lane markings on most rural roads... especially around by us. What is really needed is a pothole avoidance system, to save me spending more time inspecting the road surface than is healthy when driving.
I didnt mean things like VSA (which the 2007 Yaris doesnt have either) controlling the cars handling if alert but silly me over cooks it for the conditions.. But its nice to have that too.
I mean things that might just stop me dying in my sleep due to inattention while driving . Not something I plan on doing of course.
As a motorcyclist I pay more attention to the condition of the road surface,camber etc than many car drivers and dont regard it as time wasted . And makes it less likely I will need VSA .
In some ways its better to expect there to be potholes than to be caught out by the occasional unexpected one.
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Road surfaces are about to get worse! Rural local authorities have had there funding for pothole repairs slashed for 2022/23 while £5bn has been allocated to urban and cities, inevitably more cycle lanes and no-go for motorists roads while rural roads revert to farm tracks and pot-holed nightmares.
It's always nice to know that when I check the latest posts on this forum there will always be something to cheer me up. :-[
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Road surfaces are about to get worse! Rural local authorities have had there funding for pothole repairs slashed for 2022/23 while £5bn has been allocated to urban and cities, inevitably more cycle lanes and no-go for motorists roads while rural roads revert to farm tracks and pot-holed nightmares.
It's always nice to know that when I check the latest posts on this forum there will always be something to cheer me up. :-[
Sorry!
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I accept that RDMS is probably OK on motorways and similar roads, but on narrow country lanes, I believe it is downright dangerous.
Many times, when pulling close to the verge to miss an approaching car, I've had the RDMS try to steer me into the path of that approaching car, not funny at all!!
We certainly need the option to enable/disable RDMS, as required, by the driver.
To the guys who think RDMS is acceptable, one question.
Do you ever drive on narrow country roads????
Frequently!
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To the guys who think RDMS is acceptable, one question.
Do you ever drive on narrow country roads????
Not that often, but still too often... ;D
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I think I could live with the visual and audible alarms. It's the twitch on the steering wheel that is unacceptable. For me it's like your passenger leaning across and grabbing the wheel.
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It's the twitch on the steering wheel that is unacceptable. For me it's like your passenger leaning across and grabbing the wheel.
It's only LIKE your passenger is leaning across and grabbing the wheel. In my opinion that passenger is not extremely strong, so far I beat him/her easily...
By the way... driving on (sometimes very) narrow country roads, encountering an oncoming vehicle, I slow down. Often below 30 km/h (18 mph) and then RDMS is not activated.
If the circumstances are such that a higher speed is not dangerous, I tap the indicator and see: then no RDMS tries to intervene.
I have (very quickly) learned to live with RDMS and I also regularly use the Lane Keeping Assist System that you can switch off with 1 push of a button, if desired.
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I think I could live with the visual and audible alarms. It's the twitch on the steering wheel that is unacceptable. For me it's like your passenger leaning across and grabbing the wheel.
Totally agree with that statement.
It is said that the system starts to operate at 45mph and above, I can tell you that on my car it continues to operate, at least down to 20mph and possibly lower.
Now, I believe RDMS on the HRV model, can be set to 'Warning Only'? If that is the case, then why is it acceptable to NCAP, to permit that condition on HRV, but not on Jazz, or are Honda making up the rules as they go along?
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...Your LKAS continues working below 40mph?
The two white 'lane' lines stay white and are not greyed out?
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I mostly indicate when crossing the white line, more so since I got this car.
You should indicate well in advance of crossing the white line. Indicators - there is a clue in the name, they should be used to indicate your intention to others before starting a manoeuvre. It irritates me when driving down the motorway that a cars indicator starts to flash as it crosses, or even after it has crossed, the white line; utterly useless.
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It is said that the system starts to operate at 45mph and above, I can tell you that on my car it continues to operate, at least down to 20mph and possibly lower.
Maybe read page 481: https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals/_jcr_content/par1/textcolumnwithimagem_1653971839/textColumn/richtextdownload_90f/file.res/2021%20Jazz%20Owner%60s%20Manual.pdf
By the way, I'm wondering if I read all the comments here if you have selected early, normal or delayed. See pages 479 and 154/155.
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Strange behaviour
When I tried to use RDMS with “close” settings it’s less prone to stopping working just adjusting me more frequently and more gentle. When “normal” settings used system failing every time I drive near bus station (no special marks here only space for stopping buses near lane), “far” settings leave me without annoying adjustments or self killing RDMS, when I changing lane without signaling it’s simple moving slightly left and right the steering wheel, only once adjusted me in town when system judge that I driving into the flowerbed separating lanes.
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Strange behaviour
When I tried to use RDMS with “early” settings it’s less prone to stopping working just adjusting me more frequently and more gentle. When “normal” settings used system failing every time I drive near bus station (no special marks here only space for stopping buses near lane), “delayed ” settings leave me without annoying adjustments or self killing RDMS, when I changing lane without signaling it’s simple moving slightly left and right the steering wheel, only once adjusted me in town when system judge that I driving into the flowerbed separating lanes.
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...Your LKAS continues working below 40mph?
The two white 'lane' lines stay white and are not greyed out?
Road departure warning I understand as RDMS, not LKAS...
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I mostly indicate when crossing the white line, more so since I got this car.
You should indicate well in advance of crossing the white line. Indicators - there is a clue in the name, they should be used to indicate your intention to others before starting a manoeuvre. It irritates me when driving down the motorway that a cars indicator starts to flash as it crosses, or even after it has crossed, the white line; utterly useless.
You don't need to tell me this. I'm one of the few, (apparently) who carries out Mirror, Signal, Manouvre
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When driving on a narrow country road where there may not be comfortable room to pass an oncoming vehicle the only safe thing to do is slow down, maybe even pull right over and stop until they've passed. I do this quite often; if only to make a point that they are travelling too fast and if they collide with my stationary car the fault will be all theirs. RDMS doesn't come into that scenario.
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...Your LKAS continues working below 40mph?
The two white 'lane' lines stay white and are not greyed out?
Road departure warning I understand as RDMS, not LKAS...
... Yeah I thought Kenneve had moved on to LKAS as he mentioned it starting to operate at 45mph.
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Now, I believe RDMS on the HRV model, can be set to 'Warning Only'? If that is the case, then why is it acceptable to NCAP, to permit that condition on HRV, but not on Jazz, or are Honda making up the rules as they go along?
Who made you believe that? In any case, I can't find it in the manual of the HR-V.
https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals/_jcr_content/par1/textcolumnwithimagem_1841985346/textColumn/richtextdownload_bb9/file.res/323N06000_web_compressed.pdf
I see the same description in the manual of my (and your) Jazz. You can switch it off, but nowhere is mentioned something like 'Warning Only'
See the pages from 453 onwards and on page 313 you see the selectable settings: 'Early/Normal/Delayed'.
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...Your LKAS continues working below 40mph?
The two white 'lane' lines stay white and are not greyed out?
Road departure warning I understand as RDMS, not LKAS...
I think quite a few of us are confusing the various systems and an action by one system may be wrongly attributed to another. For instance an oncoming vehicle or approaching a stationary vehicle may trigger the collision mitigation system yet be blamed on RDMS.
Some may argue that it doesnt matter what system is responsible, they just dont like it.
But it can lead to the wrong systems being switched off unnecessarily, or the sensitivity settings not being correctly adjusted. Or they conclude the adjustment had little or no effect because some things still happen .(activated by another system)
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You don't need to tell me this. I'm one of the few, (apparently) who carries out Mirror, Signal, Manouvre
I do mirror signal manoeuvre OK, but I don't indicate unless someone can benefit from signal, I see people who don't do the mirror bit ( or on a multi lane road 'the look over right shoulder bit' ) and think that by putting an indicator on it gives them permission to manoeuvre.... unlike German car drivers who don't even think they have to signal.
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...It's easier and quicker to just MSM on every occasion as then you don't have to spend time assessing whether anyone will benefit or not.
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...It's easier and quicker to just MSM on every occasion as then you don't have to spend time assessing whether anyone will benefit or not.
If you are paying attention you should already be aware of someone who can benefit..... or not. Doing something automatically while driving is never a good idea.
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...It's easier and quicker to just MSM on every occasion as then you don't have to spend time assessing whether anyone will benefit or not.
If you are paying attention you should already be aware of someone who can benefit..... or not. Doing something automatically while driving is never a good idea.
...360° x-ray vision isn't one of my fortes.
Your last statement doesn't make sense. The practice and experience of driving instills the notion of 'doing something automatically while driving' else you won't get very far down the road...
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...It's easier and quicker to just MSM on every occasion as then you don't have to spend time assessing whether anyone will benefit or not.
Agreed, it's easy to overlook pedestrians or traffic about to emerge from a concealed turning, if you signal then you're covered in all scenarios
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... Yeah I thought Kenneve had moved on to LKAS as he mentioned it starting to operate at 45mph.
This video on the Honda info site for RDMS, mentions the speed of operation and the 'Warning Only' setting.
https://www.hondainfocenter.com/2021/Odyssey/How-To-Videos/Elite/Honda-Sensing/How-to-Use-the-Road-Departure-Mitigation-System-DA-Models-2020/
On the sort of country roads I'm talking about, there are no white lines, only grass verges.
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So who's going to start a thread with a vote addin for 'do you turn RDMS off or not' ? :D
Be interesting to see the figures.
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...It's easier and quicker to just MSM on every occasion as then you don't have to spend time assessing whether anyone will benefit or not.
If you are paying attention you should already be aware of someone who can benefit..... or not. Doing something automatically while driving is never a good idea.
Totally agree . And its something that is ,or was ,taught on most driving courses in the uk where you progress beyond basic driving lessons. eg bus driver ,IAM, ambulance, police etc.
Its a hard concept to grasp if you havnt been on such a course,or studied advanced driving from manuals.
Doing things automatically ,mirror signal manouver sounds good , and works well enough if you actually do it properly. Ie look in the mirror and act on what you see , and only indicate if its safe and appropriate to do so,at that moment , and only manouver if its safe and appropriate to do so. But too many drivers rush it . Mirror signal and manouver automatically and dont actually look or think about what they are doing ,or not until its too late.
Actually deciding whether you need to indicate takes it a step further. It encourages you to remain constantly aware of other road users and to read the road and plan ahead that little bit earlier. And if as a result of your deeper analysis of the situation you decide there is no one to indicate to, you dont.
In busy and fast moving situations where someone might appear unexpectedly you err on the safe side and indicate anyway. If you dont you are not doing it properly.
But there are many situations where its obvious there is no one else about and indicating for the sake of it is a bit silly.
In countries where its a legal requirement to indicate, If you correctly deduce there is no one about, there is no one there to see your 'crime'. but probably better to drive like the locals. :P
Safe and experienced drivers may be doing it correctly without realising it.
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This video on the Honda info site for RDMS, mentions the speed of operation and the 'Warning Only' setting.
This video shows as example the 2021 Odyssey Elite (American) and there (below) you can also read this:
©2022 American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
All information contained herein applies to U.S. vehicles only.
I'd stick to what's in my (and your) manual and not get confused by what features are available in other parts of the world (in different cars).
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Such debates re. indicating always tend towards the 2 positions of "do it always" and " do it if you need to". There is no right answer of course. However, while there are arguments for both sides, there are also many other rules of the road which are not optional and we are told to just do it. Perhaps the most obvious one is mandatory speed limits.
Those drivers who are, or believe they are, in the elite group will argue that they can drive at any speed they consider safe for the circumstances, in which case why do we have mandatory speed limits. If you are on a deserted motorway at night with no other traffic and dry warm conditions then why can't you judge it is OK to drive at 80mph?
I had/have issues with some of the dogma of the advanced driving groups, the most significant being the (now dropped apparently) mantra of "making progress" particularly for motorcyclist assessments. I always argued against that, and apparently it is no longer encouraged as it used to be, but many folk who go through the courses still seem to exercise this principle. I was obviously always wrong, but miraculously I am now right. I have always worked on safe riding rather than making progress, my mantra is "if in doubt, don't", 50% safety margin is better than 5%.
I stick to indicating as near always as I can manage, you just never know when someone will pop out into view and if you have already indicated it is one less thing to have to bother about retrospectively. It doesn't cost anything even if it doesn't achieve anything. YMMV. :)
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my mantra is "if in doubt, don't"
I took a friend's mantra and (try to...) put it into practice: "always let the idiots go". Even when they don't indicate...
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When driving on a narrow country road where there may not be comfortable room to pass an oncoming vehicle the only safe thing to do is slow down, maybe even pull right over and stop until they've passed. I do this quite often; if only to make a point that they are travelling too fast and if they collide with my stationary car the fault will be all theirs. RDMS doesn't come into that scenario.
This behaviour really winds me up. If you stop at a location where the road is wide enough, then fine. Too many times though, almost daily round here in the high Pennines, people who are not confident with their driving stop immediately and expect you to squeeze past them, when actually there is a wider passing point between where they are and where I am, and yet they refuse to move forwards, sticking to the belief that the car which is moving is at fault. Try proving that to your insurer when it is their word against yours. It will end up as knock for knock in most cases.
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When driving on a narrow country road where there may not be comfortable room to pass an oncoming vehicle the only safe thing to do is slow down, maybe even pull right over and stop until they've passed. I do this quite often; if only to make a point that they are travelling too fast and if they collide with my stationary car the fault will be all theirs. RDMS doesn't come into that scenario.
This behaviour really winds me up. If you stop at a location where the road is wide enough, then fine. Too many times though, almost daily round here in the high Pennines, people who are not confident with their driving stop immediately and expect you to squeeze past them, when actually there is a wider passing point between where they are and where I am, and yet they refuse to move forwards, sticking to the belief that the car which is moving is at fault. Try proving that to your insurer when it is their word against yours. It will end up as knock for knock in most cases.
If someone is tearing toward me at breakneck speed on a road that is not wide enough to pass safely, (in my opinion) , I will just stop in the middle of the road if neccessary.
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It is clear that the rules may differ from country to country.
Here in Poland (and also in Germany and the Netherlands) you are obliged to indicate when you leave your lane (even if only partially, for example to pass a cyclist). It doesn't matter whether there is other traffic or not, it's just an obligation. And the result is no wobbly steering wheel, because you indicated. :D
So here's probably what happened in your case with the lorry. You (partly or almost) left your lane, (almost or completely) crossed the line and your Lane Keeping Assist System did its job.
And great that you gave this link!
https://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php/articles/associate-s-guide/56-signalling
I started reading from the beginning and surprise, surprise!!! What do I read in the first paragraph?
The purpose of signals is to‘…inform other road users of your presence and intentions.'
Obvious isn't it! "Give a signal whenever it could benefit other road users. You may also need to give a signal to override lane-changing technology" (Roadcraft 2020 page 152). https://www.police-foundation.org.uk/project/roadcraft/
We have a more relaxed attitude to indicating in the UK than the Germans which may be why we have a lower rate of accidents than Germany, Netherlands and Poland which 3 times the rate of accidents compared to the UK.... ;D ;D
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If someone is tearing toward me at breakneck speed on a road that is not wide enough to pass safely, (in my opinion) , I will just stop in the middle of the road if neccessary.
Yes, speed is the issue. Locals like me on these roads know where speed is OK and where it isn't. We know where the best passing points are and where the bad bends are. The problem is usually down to really timid drivers not normally on this type of road or 'rat run' merchants trying to save a minute or two on a commute by nipping down a lane.
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We have a more relaxed attitude to indicating in the UK than the Germans which may be why we have a lower rate of accidents than Germany, Netherlands and Poland which 3 times the rate of accidents compared to the UK.... ;D ;D
I have often wondered how the uk has such a low road death rate. Pretty much the best in the world if you exclude some small island and city states where you cant really drive fast. But its certainly not due to indicating ;D
I havnt driven enough in Netherlands and Poland to comment. But Germany the reason is obvious. Not only do they drive very fast on Autobahns (or are in very narrow contraflows) but its noticeable to me how many drivers are nervous of driving anywhere else, and cant drive round bends. If you are held up on a mountain pass or winding road its nearly always by a nervous driver in a large and powerful German registered car.
Other countries with high death rates are even more obvious. The further east and south you go the more drivers seem to assume that if you cant yet see something it does not exist. They frequently overtake on blind bends ,and even the official signing often allow overtaking until much too near a blind bend :o They also often overtake a line of traffic with no safe 'landing place' to aim for ,trusting others will to let them in if they get into trouble.
You cant generalise of course.And it only takes a few incidents to push the statistics up. The UK has plenty of rubbish drivers.
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We have a more relaxed attitude to indicating in the UK than the Germans which may be why we have a lower rate of accidents than Germany, Netherlands and Poland which 3 times the rate of accidents compared to the UK.... ;D ;D
Are German cars fitted with indicators for German market then ? They seem to be an optional extra for UK models.
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We have a more relaxed attitude to indicating in the UK than the Germans which may be why we have a lower rate of accidents than Germany, Netherlands and Poland which 3 times the rate of accidents compared to the UK.... ;D ;D
Are German cars fitted with indicators for German market then ? They seem to be an optional extra for UK models.
One of the best things manufacturers did was fit animated turn signals - drivers want to show off these on their expensive cars so they excessively use them ;)
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The topic of this thread is "Road departure warning" or better Road Departure Mitigation System.
I'm afraid this topic desperately needs such a system because we are way off the track... ???
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...As RDMS works wonderfully ;) another topic needed to be chosen :D
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(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a013.gif)(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a049.gif)
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I managed to capture an instance when RDMS cut in unexpectedly :
(https://i.imgur.com/7l40a2m.gif)
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The topic of this thread is "Road departure warning" or better Road Departure Mitigation System.
I'm afraid this topic desperately needs such a system because we are way off the track... ???
+1 plasma
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when RDMS cut in unexpectedly
RDMS never intervenes unexpectedly for me. By now, after more than 5 months, I really know when it will become active.
That is why I also know when I consciously cross the line or go off the road, how to prevent that intervention...
Examples: reduce your speed to below 30 kmh/18 mph before crossing the line or entering the verge. At higher speed: activate the indicator for a moment.
If you don't do this, you know it (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/sportlich/a054.gif) is coming, right? So, what do you mean by "unexpected"?
If I ever unknowingly would cross the line or go off the road I would be very happy with the intervention!
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If I ever unknowingly would cross the line or go off the road I would be very happy with the intervention!
Agreed
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During a holiday in the Netherlands I discovered that RDMS can indeed be quite annoying.
So far I haven't had a single problem with the system for almost a year. Until I came across (many of) these kinds of local roads in "cycling country" the Netherlands:
(https://www.fietsvakantiepagina.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fietsstrook2.jpg)
The red parts are "bicycle lanes". Any idea how RDMS reacts to that? (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a042.gif)
We know what's coming so it's not scary, just really annoying.
Fortunately, RDMS gives up after crossing the line a few times but then reactivates after some time.
Driving through Germany and Poland, RDMS was finally able to rest again... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/muede/e010.gif)
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RDMS needs a simple on/off switch as it often goes against driver experience road positioning.
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RDMS needs a simple on/off switch as it often goes against driver experience road positioning.
I shut it off on every start - available on all models i presume?
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During a holiday in the Netherlands I discovered that RDMS can indeed be quite annoying.
So far I haven't had a single problem with the system for almost a year. Until I came across (many of) these kinds of local roads in "cycling country" the Netherlands:
(https://www.fietsvakantiepagina.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fietsstrook2.jpg)
The red parts are "bicycle lanes". Any idea how RDMS reacts to that? (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a042.gif)
We know what's coming so it's not scary, just really annoying.
Fortunately, RDMS gives up after crossing the line a few times but then reactivates after some time.
Driving through Germany and Poland, RDMS was finally able to rest again... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/muede/e010.gif)
Well done Jazzik ,as a regular defender of RDMS, to admit it can indeed be annoying with certain types of road markings . I too seldom have issues with it in the uk or other countries I have driven in , but admit it can occasionally be twitchy in certain situations - often due to road patching ,extraneous road markings etc.
Interesting to hear that after a certain amount of time reacting to these markings the system apparently learns that maybe the driver knows best after all and moderates its response for a while.
Could this be why some users immediately find RDMS intervention unacceptable and always switch it off,
while others get used to it. Maybe their RDMS system learns that they habitually drive in ditches, and adapts to their driving style ;D
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Luckily on the HR-V the RDS is such rubbish it doesn't require turning off.
I gave it it's head the other day and nearly ended up in the ditch. Useless T.G!
I consider that if you need such a thing should you really be allowed out on your own? ;D
Similarly the lane guidance, doesn't work. Just a slight 'twitch' on the steering wheel with no attempt to drive round a bend. But with a bright orange warning on the dashboard and a loud warning chime.
At least that was one thing the Karoq did properly. (unnecessary as it may be!)
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Similarly the lane guidance, doesn't work. Just a slight 'twitch' on the steering wheel with no attempt to drive round a bend.
Strange... Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) works fine in our Jazz.(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a041.gif)
On the motorway it makes driving very relaxed in combination with ACC (adaptive cruise control). Our car follows (even fairly sharp) curves well.
When the traffic is not very busy, we drive with ACC and LKAS as standard.
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It's what your requirements are.
I just wish the EU regs hadn't dictated it is on by default each journey.
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RDMS needs a simple on/off switch as it often goes against driver experience road positioning.
Totally agree, it needs a switch to permanently disable it, at the drivers discretion.
My main concern is with narrow country lanes, where one has to pull in close to the verge to pass someone.
To have RDMS try to steer you away from the verge and into the path of the oncoming car, is to my mind downright dangerous and I just don't know how it can be considered a safety feature ?
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I agree Kenneve.
I don't go down country lanes that often but I did recently and it's quite scary (I normally switch it off but I had forgotten on this occasion).
Defenders of RDMS say that the twitch of the steering wheel is easily overcome but it's disconcerting and can induce momentary panic. It has zero safety benefits from what I can see.
I'd like a simple on/off switch. I have mastered how to do it now but it's a bit of a faff.
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...is to my mind downright dangerous
We know what's coming so it's not scary, just really annoying.
It is clear that the interventions of RDMS are experienced differently by everyone...
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At what speed do these systems become live?
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In July I had a 2 week holiday in Devon. I drove on roads of various widths, including some barely wide enough for the car. I had no trouble at all with RDMS.
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Am I right in thinking that a driver who cannot react instinctively to a slight twitch from the RDMS without panicking has never driven on ice or snow? And has been very lucky to so far avoid unexpected twitches from loose gravel ,oil,mud, ruts etc. Long may it continue, but they are trusting to luck. I would argue the occasional RDMS twitch helps keeps you on your toes to expect the unexpected.
Sorry if it sounds harsh but would question my competence to continue driving if I couldnt cope with the RDMS and LKAS twitches I have experienced so far over 7250 miles
It didnt try to steer me into ,or away from, a wild brown bear. (which I suspect likes sandwiches, A friend saw what may have been the same bear a couple of weeks later :P)
,I mean no disrespect to my wife by saying that ,despite not having my experience of off road motorsport ,motorcycling and some advanced driver training, she has never had any problem coping with RDMS either.
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Is that a bear right and you had to bear left to avoid it :o
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RDMS seems designed for those who aren't paying attention to the road ahead and need a reminder to look out of the windscreen.
If you drive for the conditions and pay attention you don't need steering wheel twitches.
Using a post above, you make a decision to avoid a rut but it means briefly crossing a white line by a small amount. You can see it's safe to cross the line, nothing approaching, nothing behind, no side roads, but, you get the steering wheel wobble criticising your decision.
As you may guess, I hate it and it is turned off every journey.
For those who feel they need it or can ignore it, fair do's, we are all different.
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I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with your thoughts, re driving on ice & snow, I’ve never had the steering physically attempt to take over direction, more the opposite, where there is a distinct lack of steering and the wheel goes floppy.
In any case, why should we have to put up with a system, which can be inherently dangerous, for the reasons previously stated?
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Is that a bear right and you had to bear left to avoid it :o
better than a bear (bare) behind. ;D
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I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with your thoughts, re driving on ice & snow, I’ve never had the steering physically attempt to take over direction, more the opposite, where there is a distinct lack of steering and the wheel goes floppy.
In any case, why should we have to put up with a system, which can be inherently dangerous, for the reasons previously stated?
I dont mean the effect is identical, but it is an occurrence that prompts some form of pro active driver response, even if its just the decison to ignore it,or take a moment to double check everything is ok. I know thoughts on this are deeply divided and I respect your opinion. I just feel that I'd rather a system that occasonally prompts me, even if its a false alarm than nothing ,where the first indication something is wrong is when you go wrong
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RDMS needs a simple on/off switch as it often goes against driver experience road positioning.
That is exactly what I have on the 2019 CRV SR hybrid, an “On/Off” Switch…..and furthermore it stays Off until you actually turn it back on again; no defaulting to On when restarting the car.
So much for progress on newer Honda models?
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My main concern is with narrow country lanes, where one has to pull in close to the verge to pass someone.
To have RDMS try to steer you away from the verge and into the path of the oncoming car, is to my mind downright dangerous and I just don't know how it can be considered a safety feature ?
You are expected to know how RDMS works and what is to come. You simply steer in the direction you choose and your Jazz does exactly what you want. Trust me, you really are stronger than your RDMS. (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/sportlich/a050.gif)
To find out what's coming, read (again?) pages 478 through 486: https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals/_jcr_content/par1/textcolumnwithimagem_1653971839/textColumn/richtextdownload_90f/file.res/2021%20Jazz%20Owner%60s%20Manual.pdf
Defenders of RDMS say that the twitch of the steering wheel is easily overcome but it's disconcerting and can induce momentary panic. It has zero safety benefits from what I can see.
You know your Jazz has RDMS. You know how that works (see above) and then you tell me it can induce momentary panic?
PANIC??? (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/sportlich/a054.gif)
In any case, why should we have to put up with a system, which can be inherently dangerous, for the reasons previously stated?
(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c050.gif)
Read my answers above.... Yes, RDMS can be annoying, but dangerous...? Causing panic...?
Besides, it's sooo simple not to let RDMS intervene: It doesn't work below 30 km/h (18 mph), which seems to me a recommendable speed on those very narrow UK country roads when you have oncoming traffic.
Do you want to go faster? Use your indicator and see: RDMS does not intervene
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RDMS seems designed for those who aren't paying attention to the road ahead and need a reminder to look out of the windscreen.
That statement seems a bit ehhh...(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/frech/a092.gif)
Anyway, we are not all perfect, are we?
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If you are unhappy about approaching vehicles on narrow roads, slow down. As stated, the Honda safety systems don't work at less than 18mph/30kmh
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I cant shake this vision of grandpa and grandma having to be dragged from their cave to the new fangled mud hut. Until a cave bear persuaded them of the advantages. ;D
Sorry guys, at some point folk will have to stop switching these aids off and learn to work alongside the advantages of the technology. With you in charge. And the first step to change is not being able to switch it off permanently by default. Thats too easy.
Personally I dont want to be the last surviving driver unable to use ACC or other aids . (Although I'd quite like to be the oldest person driving a vintage car that doesnt have it)
I can understand those who dont want added complications or new learning curves . And a system that adds extra unexpected occurrences of its own seems counter productive.
My wife and I have learned to accept the occasional warning wobble on the steering,or warning light or slight tendency to steer away ( -easily over ridden,) as normal . It really doesnt happen that often for me and has improved with experience,It also helps that my wife, when passenger, no longer assumes it is always due to my bad driving. :P
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Some good points Lord V.
I will have to conduct a thorough review of my inner Luddite. ;D
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It seems you are not alone here. One of many... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/traurig/a040.gif)
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Anyway, we are not all perfect, are we?
Funny that you mention that but, yes, I am practically perfect in every way ;D
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For what it's worth, here are my thoughts on the subject. I have a narrow (just wide enough for two vehicles with a tiny amount to spare) country lane near to me, which I drive down regularly. It has a 40mph speed limit and a solid white line painted on the nearside in both directions. Quite regularly, an oncoming vehicle will straddle the middle white line and encroach on my side of the road. This tends to either be a larger vehicle, a Transit van say, or a car being driven by someone who thinks it is twice as wide as it actually is! Because of this, I tend to drive with my nearside wheel on, or slightly over, the nearside white line. This, as I see it, presents two possible points of danger; I may scrape the tip of my nearside wing mirror on the hedgerow, or I may have a head on accident with a van coming the other way at 40mph. If I don't turn off the RDMS, for some reason best known to itself, the system thinks the head on accident with the forthcoming Transit van is the better option and tries to drag me over into its path.
As far as I am concerned, the system is not only useless but downright dangerous. It is not, by any means, fit for purpose. The ability to turn it off permanently should be the absolute minimum requirement, imho...
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Can we really blame our RDMS for ridiculous country "roads"
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f5/d9/53/f5d953cf3547c6299e794b9e902d8a6d.jpg)
or "inventive" Dutch local roads with "bicycle lanes"?
(https://www.fietsvakantiepagina.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fietsstrook2.jpg)
(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c086.gif)
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Can we really blame our RDMS for ridiculous country "roads"
Ha,ha……….maybe not but we can certainly blame the Garmin built in SatNav for trying to take us down said “ridiculous country roads” in the first place when more logical and easier to drive routes exist!
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we can certainly blame the Garmin built in SatNav for trying to take us down said “ridiculous country roads” in the first place when more logical and easier to drive routes exist!
Our Garmin gives a few route options. It's seems to be a matter of choosing the right one... ;)
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we can certainly blame the Garmin built in SatNav for trying to take us down said “ridiculous country roads” in the first place when more logical and easier to drive routes exist!
Our Garmin gives a few route options. It's seems to be a matter of choosing the right one... ;)
I had one instance of NO options and a mandatory offer of being sent down a grass covered bridleway in Pembrokeshire this Summer!
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Both Garmin and TomTom produce some illogical routing decisions. They seem unable to program in that driving maybe an extra mile on a better class road is the way to go rather than struggle down a single track dirt path.
Both have also been known at motorway junctions, on a bend, to direct you off via the sliproad then back onto the same motorway via the on sliproad presumably because the bend makes it shorter.
I remember using Microsoft AutoRoute on a PC back in the 90's to plot routes and it's routing was far superior. Even now I still occasionally use Microsoft MapPoint to double check if I'm travelling somewhere unknown and far away. Even though MapPoint is now obsolete and 2013 it still does a good job and you can export the route into a standalone Garmin.
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Autoroute also allowed you to set speeds for each type of road, such as B roads, unclassified roads, narrow A roads etc. It amazes me that such a feature is not routinely incorporated into navigation software. It would get rid of most of these illogical decisions apart perhaps from the off and on again at a junction as no doubt the slip roads would be seen as part of the motorway.
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I love having Satnav; I remember when me and wifey would be having furious rows about map reading?!
My sons went to two different universities in Birmingham at the same time. Without Satnav I would have got lost every time I visited them.
I love driving on those narrow country lanes.
Satnav is only an animated map; the driver has to make sensible decisions about the route offered.
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(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a025.gif)(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a049.gif)
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I only tend to use the Satnav for inner city directions. If you can't find yourself around the UK without using a gadget, then maybe you should just go on a Saga coach holiday.
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For what it's worth, here are my thoughts on the subject. I have a narrow (just wide enough for two vehicles with a tiny amount to spare) country lane near to me, which I drive down regularly. It has a 40mph speed limit and a solid white line painted on the nearside in both directions. Quite regularly, an oncoming vehicle will straddle the middle white line and encroach on my side of the road. This tends to either be a larger vehicle, a Transit van say, or a car being driven by someone who thinks it is twice as wide as it actually is! Because of this, I tend to drive with my nearside wheel on, or slightly over, the nearside white line. This, as I see it, presents two possible points of danger; I may scrape the tip of my nearside wing mirror on the hedgerow, or I may have a head on accident with a van coming the other way at 40mph. If I don't turn off the RDMS, for some reason best known to itself, the system thinks the head on accident with the forthcoming Transit van is the better option and tries to drag me over into its path.
As far as I am concerned, the system is not only useless but downright dangerous. It is not, by any means, fit for purpose. The ability to turn it off permanently should be the absolute minimum requirement, imho...
I treat RDMS as a driver aid. I dont expect it to position me in the correct position on a country road and certainly not for it to stop oncoming vehicles being in the 'wrong' place. (LKAS helps keep you central in a 'lane markings ' but thats something different used in different circumstances )
But what is correct position on a narrow road? Opinions on this vary, often depending on whether or not you have studied advanced driving manuals and techniques. Its obvious on a very narrow single track lane. You stay in the centre and fully expect an oncoming vehicle to be doing the same. If oncoming drivers meet at too high a speed thats entirely due to driver error. (By one or both) RDMS is happy to accept verges very close on both sides at once ,and in most situations you will be driving too slow for it to activate anyway.
But where its just wide enough for two vehicles to pass its different. Some drivers will rigidly follow the basic highway code rule of keeping left , but do so even when its not necessary. The downside is they are very close to the nearside hedges ,roadside ditches etc and get a much worse view of approaching hazard, that may be round a bend, or could very suddenly emerge from the side. They have very little time to react and limited option to swerve. Its easy to visualise the hazard of a car door opening if you pass too close but it also applies to vehicles suddenly part emerging from a side entrance, farm animals, pedestrians etc etc.
Side of the road huggers tend to see the oncoming vehicle that much later, and it takes them more by surprise. Their reaction is more reactive, less proactive. They have less time to slow down and position correctly to pass, so its more likely their hasty move even closer to the hedge/ditch will be at a speed that activates RDMS intervention, which in turn takes them by surprise and might cause 'slight panic'.
The whole essence of good driving is giving yourself more time to think and react in the best way.
Turning off the RDMS does not mean you no longer have encounters with oncoming vehicles . But you no longer get a warning that maybe you should be dealing with them better ,especially if you are that near disaster you feel unable to override a slight steering intervention.
Advanced training manuals tend to advocate positioning a bit further to the centre when possible. (eg there is nothing oncoming, or trying to overtake. ) Observation and hazard awareness skills need to be well developed .Its true that some drivers take the space without the skills to go with it.
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The Police 'Blue Book' training manual by which I was taught......
Says to enable an early view on bends " On a right hand bend you should drive as far to the LEFT as possible, looking right. On left hand bend you should drive as far to the RIGHT as possible, looking left without crossing the centre line on a road with lanes in opposing directions".
I always use this method and it works.
Of course on very narrow, single width lanes you cannot move very far either way, but should still go as far as possible.
All the time when driving you should look as far ahead as possible and then bring your vision back to your bonnet and repeat all the time.
So many accidents are caused by idiots that never look further than 50 feet or so beyond their bonnet. when I was driving 30k miles a year I saw it all the time.
If driving behind a much slower, high vehicle, e:g:- Farm machinery , army lorry try looking UNDERNEATH it for a view ahead, if you cannot see past it.
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The Police 'Blue Book' training manual by which I was taught......
Says to enable an early view on bends " On a right hand bend you should drive as far to the LEFT as possible, looking right. On left hand bend you should drive as far to the RIGHT as possible, looking left without crossing the centre line on a road with lanes in opposing directions".
I always use this method and it works.
Of course on very narrow, single width lanes you cannot move very far either way, but should still go as far as possible.
All the time when driving you should look as far ahead as possible and then bring your vision back to your bonnet and repeat all the time.
So many accidents are caused by idiots that never look further than 50 feet or so beyond their bonnet. when I was driving 30k miles a year I saw it all the time.
If driving behind a much slower, high vehicle, e:g:- Farm machinery , army lorry try looking UNDERNEATH it for a view ahead, if you cannot see past it.
Totally agree
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I use sat nav when going to a new area. I find it ideal for those last few miles and it has rarely let me down. Before any long journey, I always look at a map first so I have a good idea of what roads I will be using.
I guess we need to see it as a driver aid as opposed to a form of autonomous driving where you simply respond, blindly, to its instructions. The first time I used a sat nav it took me down a muddy track and through a ford. It was clearly not ideal. I now "overrule" it if I think it is giving me a less than ideal route.
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Re driving on narrow country roads. If you constantly visualise a hazard that's not yet visible *, when something does appear you will hopefully be prepared.
* Slow moving farm machinery, a fallen tree, avalanche, horses, cows, sheep, cyclists, pedestrians, oncoming vehicle over the centre line.