Transmission whine....advice please.

[mikebore]

My 2011 1.4 GE ES CVT with 57,000 miles has developed a very slight transmission whine.

When it was MOT'd the Honda Dealer did a health check and commented on it, but I had noticed it.

The Honda agent suggested booking it in for investigation, which could include some stripping down.

Apart from disappointment, my feeling is that if I do nothing it may well go on for a very long time yet, at which point it would probably be uneconomical to repair it, as any gearbox problem involving whine is likely to be very expensive.

If I am right I don't see much point paying for a stripping down investigation, unless there are some known problems which can occur with a CVT which aren't going to cost £thousands.

So that is my question....are there any known cheap (£ low hundreds) problems which would be worth looking for now?

The car has been serviced by Honda from new, but one thing I would definitely want to do is check CVT oil level and maybe change the CVT oil anyway.

By nature I am very inclined to want to get things fixed when I know of a problem, but trying to avoid over-reacting to this one.

What would you do?

Thanks




 

[guest5669]

My iShift gearbox was clunking all the time couple of months ago not whining though. I took it to Chiswick Honda (flagship) who were useless just said I would have to live with it . I decided to change the gearbox oil now runs like a dream MTF3 gearbox oil cost was £30 no more clunking.

[longlegpete]

My 2011 1.4 GE ES CVT with 57,000 miles has developed a very slight transmission whine.

When it was MOT'd the Honda Dealer did a health check and commented on it, but I had noticed it.

The Honda agent suggested booking it in for investigation, which could include some stripping down.

Apart from disappointment, my feeling is that if I do nothing it may well go on for a very long time yet, at which point it would probably be uneconomical to repair it, as any gearbox problem involving whine is likely to be very expensive.

If I am right I don't see much point paying for a stripping down investigation, unless there are some known problems which can occur with a CVT which aren't going to cost £thousands.

So that is my question....are there any known cheap (£ low hundreds) problems which would be worth looking for now?

The car has been serviced by Honda from new, but one thing I would definitely want to do is check CVT oil level and maybe change the CVT oil anyway.

By nature I am very inclined to want to get things fixed when I know of a problem, but trying to avoid over-reacting to this one.

What would you do?

Thanks




 

My reaction would normally be the same as yours, i/e get it sorted as soon as possible,  however as its not my car my reaction would be to not worry too much and certainly not go spending money to maybe find a problem, just keep an ear open to the noises and if it gets worse then maybe act.
I know its not the same car but I run a 52 reg Toyota HiLux, at around 65,000 miles it started developing a transmission wine, booked it in at a Toyota dealership,  blar blar blar could be axial,  gearbox,  around £400 to have a look, thought i would see how it went before more money was spent, its now done 110,000 miles and no change so i think i made the right call.

[guest5355]

Hi, we have a 2012 Jazz EX CVT, bought in March 2015 from Honda main dealer in Kent (ex Motability Car) and we had problems with loss of power/drive on hills - cornering etc. which was found to be due to the fact that Honda had changed the  CVT oil change from 7 years to 2 years  and this was not done by either the supplying dealer or the dealer in Kent. 
 When we told the dealer, in Kent about this they were very helpful in as much as they drained the CVT box then flushed it then refilled it.  Overall the car went back to the dealer 5 (yes 5) times before the solution was found,
 It seams that Honda UK had not made it clear to dealers about the change in Miles/Time of these CVT fluid changes and this may be the cause of transmission whine.
 The result was a no more loss of drive.

[guest5669]

The transmission oil actually goes off losing its viscosity, why they recommend changing it every two years . It does make a huge difference when its done I also did the engine oil total cost with new filter £73 . Honda would charge about £300 normally.

[mikebore]

Thanks all, very useful.

The main point seems to be that even if I decide to play a wait and see game, it would be worth getting the CVT oil changed now.

It was changed at 13000mi (2 years) and 36000mi (3.5 years).

It is now 57000mi (5 years) so due soon anyway.

[guest5505]

Does the advice re gearbox oil apply to the manual and well, mine has developed a wine and was thinking about changing the oil, but understood the bearings which are at fault are sealed, so oil change will make no difference

[culzean]

Does the advice re gearbox oil apply to the manual and well, mine has developed a wine and was thinking about changing the oil, but understood the bearings which are at fault are sealed, so oil change will make no difference

The bearings inside manual gearbox are not sealed,  they are left open so that oil can get in and out to lubricate and cool them,  only seals will be where bearings are on a shaft that enters or exits gearbox, which are drive shafts  from clutch and from diff to wheels - and then only sealed on exterior face to stop oil getting out and dirt / water getting in.

May be worth trying gearbox molyslip, but that is more of a prevention to stop bearing getting noisy than a cure once the damage has been done.

By the way NEVER use additives in auto / CVT units,  they only perform with correct fluid (notice I didn't say oil because auto box fluids (ATF) are a complex mixture of substances,  many formulated by vehicle makers and only suit their particular system) and need a certain amount of friction to work, that means that friction reducing additives like molyslip or PTFE (teflon) can stop your auto box working and are a bugger to get out once they are in there as they stick to metal.

[guest5355]

Thanks all, very useful.

The main point seems to be that even if I decide to play a wait and see game, it would be worth getting the CVT oil changed now.

It was changed at 13000mi (2 years) and 36000mi (3.5 years).

It is now 57000mi (5 years) so due soon anyway.

I would highly recommend that you have the CVT flushed and then refilled. The 2, together can cost up to £150. ish, but if you are going to keep the car for a few more years it's well worth the cost.
 As I mentioned in my earlier reply it solved our CVT problem and when I told my brother about the Flushing option, he had it done on his Jazz ,CVT, which is one of the 1st jazz's made with CVT, I know it's over 10 years old, the results were, in his words. Fantastic, well worth the money.

[mikebore]

I took it to a local independent I have used before, and trust, for a second opinion.

They gave it quite a long test drive from cold, and confirmed the noise. They think it might be the oil pump inside the gearbox, and recommend changing the filter and CVT oil, which they are doing next week.

Will report back.

[mikebore]

My Jazz with whine is due ti have the CVT oil and filter replaced tomorrow.

Just wondering whether to insist on genuine Honda CVT oil or whether an equivalent approved for CVT is OK.

I have seen posts where it has been claimed that some non Honda CVT oils is better.

Thanks

[guest5669]

My Jazz with whine is due ti have the CVT oil and filter replaced tomorrow.

Just wondering whether to insist on genuine Honda CVT oil or whether an equivalent approved for CVT is OK.

I have seen posts where it has been claimed that some non Honda CVT oils is better.

Thanks

MTF3 oil cost just under tenner don't need any more than 3, why risk using other products that could harm and existing problem?

[mikebore]

Thanks. I took the car in last Wednesday to have the CVT oil and filter changed, and they confirmed they would be using genuine Honda CVT fluid so my question about substitutes didn't arise.

Unfortunately they had been sent the wrong filter so now it being done next Tuesday.

[John Ratsey]

I think the consensus here is that only the Honda CVT oil should be used in the CVT boxes, even if it costs a bit more.

[mikebore]

UPDATE. Local Independent has changed CVT oil and filter, using actual Honda CVT oil.

The noise is unchanged.

He advised me to ignore it, which in theory is not difficult as I had been barely aware of it until the Honda Main dealer drew attention to it at the MOT....but in practice is easier said than done. Until the MOT I thought it was normal ageing.

I plan to take it to the Honda Main Dealer in the town where my daughter lives, for a second opinion. Maybe it is at the noisy end of the normal distribution without having a specific life limiting fault. I could probably live more comfortably with that.

My choices seem to be:-

1. Ignore, carry on using and it might well be many years/miles before it becomes unacceptable (if ever), at which point it would be a write off because it would not be worth rebuilding/replacing the gearbox. Background...we do 15-20000 mi per annum, with frequent 400 mile round trip weekend visits to children....not local pottering!

2. Trade car in. Brings in ethical questions! My conscience would probably allow me to trade it in to a dealer in p/x but not sell privately. I wouldn't be hiding anything, the noise is plainly audible to a knowledgable ear, but not obtrusive.

3. Get the problem investigated and fixed now, which could cost £000s. Maybe go after Honda for a contribution.

4. Carry on using it but reverse the roles of our two Jazzes. At the moment we always use my Mk2 for long journeys, but we could use my wife's Mk1 (49000 miles) from now on.

Any advice? Other options?