replacing my alloy wheels low profile tyres with steel wheels etc

[guest5223]

I am not a fan of the alloy wheels and low profile tyres currentl on my jazz . Could i fit jazz steel wheels and tyres from lower spec jazz of same year? Would i have to adjust to tracking? Any help gratefully received. Col

[culzean]

People routinely put winter tyres of 175/65R15 size on a Jazz instead the the 185/55R16 ones on alloys fitted to say Si.
The narrow tyre works better in snow anyway, and are cheaper than 185/55 profile which are a bit of an oddball size and not common.

My wifes  Jazz Si is running on steel wheels and 175/65R15 winter Nokians at the moment and her alloys with 185/55R16 summer tyres on are hibernating in the garage.  The outside diameter of the two tyres is the same so speedo not affected and it handles as normal (seems to have improved her parking if anything). 

check out mytyres.co.uk for tyres fitted to steel wheels - the Nokians were £80 each including steel wheel - I bought set of them instead of spending money on a useless space-saver wheel - now she has a full size winter spare in boot during summer and a full size summer spare in winter.

so the answer is that you can fit higher profile tyres no worries - and they will give you a softer ride.

check this link - it gives exhaustive details of wheelsizes, offset, etc.

http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=6492.msg27749#msg27749

[eck]

check with your insurance company also and beware of offset changes to geometry. See AA guidance also. It is not just as simple as others would have you believe, yes you can do lots of swaps and yes it will work, but why do people imagine Honda and other car manufacturers bother to make different sizes of wheel/tyre combinations for same type of cars, it would save them millions to make them the same!!
Still so many 'experts' know better!!

[culzean]

but why do people imagine Honda and other car manufacturers bother to make different sizes of wheel/tyre combinations for same type of cars, it would save them millions to make them the same!!
Still so many 'experts' know better!!

Changes to wheels and tyres are mostly done by car makers for styling, not engineering reasons, the exception is where a much higher powered engine is fitted to a model,  a low powered city car like the jazz does not need 185/55  low profile tyres just like they don't need 200mph rated tyres - but they can give the car a 'sportier' look - I can understand why someone would want to fit more readily available = cheaper tyres rather than hunt around and pay through the nose for an oddball 185/55R16 tyre size, and the higher profile tyre will absorb road bumps better. 

Most Europeans have to have winter tyres by law between October and April and most choose a slightly narrower profile tyre which are better in snow, and I am sure that they all rush to the garage to have their suspension set-up changed every time  the offset (ET or distance from mounting face to centreline of the wheel rim) will be catered for in the wheel not the car (Honda use 45mm on Jazz, so if you buy offset of this or very close the basic wheel geometry will be the same) check spigot (centre mounting hole size) on Jazz it is 56.0 to 56.1mm depending where you look it up - and if the outside diameter of the wheel and rolling radius are the same what's the problem? With a narrower tyre you are not likely to have the problem of tyre hitting the wheel arch or suspension.  On modern cars only the toe-in is adjustable by screwing track rod ends in and out - everything else is fixed,  and I am sure Honda do not make different hubs for the cars with185/55 and 175/65 tyres.  Where people get into trouble is when they start fitting spacers to make wheelbase wider.

I cannot think of any more extreme change in wheel size than going from a 185/55 tyre to a spacesaver, but car seems to steer OK with one fitted - and as far as I know your insurance is still valid - even though going above 50mph not advisable - and if it was dangerous car makers would supply them (in fact most have stopped doing it - but that is a cost and weight saving exercise).

[eck]

15" wheel models have a front track 1490mm, rear track 1475mm, wheels have offset of 45mm
16" wheel models have a front track 1475mm, rear track 1460mm, wheels have offset of 53mm

Be sure you are not messing with something that is not fully understood in overall handling effects.

Ask Honda why they waste design and manufacturing time with these differences.

[culzean]

Exactly so - the track is measured across the centrelines of the rims  - and the offset (ET) is measure from the hub face to centreline of rim (the less offset the further away from car centreline the centreline of the rim is), so effectively the centre of the 45mm offset 15" wheel is further from centreline of car by 8mm per side compared to 53mm offset wheel,  which if you add 8+8 to 1475 you get 1491 - the width across hub faces is the same,  the difference is covered by offset of the rim to hub face.

I cannot see Honda or any motor manufacturer making a change of 8mm per side to the body of the car or any standard component made by the millions to enable them to fit a tyre 10mm wider to a car.

[eck]

So why do you think they 'bother', if it were just looks the same shape/style of wheel could be made in either size and the set up would be exactly the same - so why not.

The geometry is far more complex and stud, bearing loads, contact angles resulting in a steering nature/feel are all affected by these seemingly minor differences related back to car weight, CofG and expected loads (big F factor here).

Much not seemingly important in a low performance car like the Jazz but may a sportier car has had 20mm added to track to make it more stable (Civic type S?)

Lets just imagine adding a spacer of 30cm thickness - would that make no difference? Exaggerated, but the differences from a small change would tend to the same effect.

[culzean]

Attached is photo of the tyre information sticker from my Wifes 2012 Si  ............................................ from this I assume Honda think it's OK to fit either (and so will your insurance company)

higher profile 175/65R15 gives a smoother ride and more choice of tyres - and cheaper than oddball 185/55R16


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[lexi]

  I personally wouldn't bother changing myself. It will only cost more money anyway. This  Jazz is trundling around in bad conditions at all hours here in snow etc. with original Dunlops and alloys. They will get worn to 3mm and changed........I am Scottish  I think the Jazz may benefit from a low profile in spirited driving.
    This one when pushed hard at 60-70 in bendy roads feels that it needs the extra grip.

[applicationcen]

I agree with the needs extra grip bit. I have several back roads where spirited driving is met with slamming on the brakes on the single track portions! Mine is not that grippy with Dunlops! But with the meagre amount of miles I seem to be doing Ill bide my time until there is a good reason to change them despite lack of grip and profusion of noise:)

[culzean]

Apparently the 175 tyres would be better for braking and accelerating and the 185 for cornering - depends which way the force is acting - it is to do with the shape of the contact patch on the road - wider tyres don't 'squash' as much and rectangular contact patch is narrower front to back  and wider side to side, on narrower tyres  the contact patch is longer front to back and narrower side to side.

narrower tyres definitely better in the snow - I have experienced it many times.

you can get a good 175/65R15 tyre already fitted to steel wheel at mytyres for pretty much the same price as just the 185/55R16 tyre (and much more choice with 175 size) - as I said 185/55R16 is oddball size and I may well put the 175 tyres and 15" alloy or steel wheels on my wifes Si when the present 185 tyres wear out - and look forward to cheaper tyres in the future.

[eck]

"tyre information sticker" are generic for the car type so it can go on any Jazz - one of the many tiny ways car makers save money.

Has it not been observed that the 15" wheeled cars from new are lighter by 31 -70kg with therefore a different C of G, so by changing the track of a car by wheel change will have no effect??

[culzean]

The tyre information sticker actually shows what tyre / wheel size combinations can be safely used used on the vehicle it is attached to - they are not 'generic' to cover other models in the range - the one on my Civic only shows one size of tyre on the sticker(although the handbook which is generic shows different tyre sizes for other models with same body) . 

It would be illegal for Honda to show an unsafe tyre / wheel size combination that cannot be used.  And one passenger could easily add 100Kg to car weight (I have seen them), what happens to CoG then,  and if you have car full of people and luggage would probably be over 400Kg extra.

[degzi]

Yes they are intended for the jazz. Ie rolling radius is the same.
And no tracking should be the same. Although many places check it for free to put your mind at rest.

 

[eck]

Despite my own reservations and a detailed talk with a Honda Engineer (who does not advise changing) I have elicited an email from Honda to say that the wheels can be interchanged. Keep for insurance queries.

We have two cars with the different sizes each, they do handle differently, and each even feels different to me when the petrol tank is filled (which will lower C of G), and load changes with more passengers is different between the cars also.

So feel free to change but in my experience you will feel a difference. If ride is hard a cheaper option is a cushion.

Here is email from Honda.

Many thanks for the differing views and happy Honda motoring



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