scuffed wheel

[Lord Voltermore]

My new advance  has just reached its century  - 100 miles from new.  I was horrified to find that already one wheel trim is scuffed!.  Pretty sure  it was ok on delivery.    I was dreading informing my wife but she took it quite well - suspiciously well   

 Fortunately the damage is confined to the plastic 'fan' so  it wont corrode.   As you can tell from how dirty the wheel is I am not that meticulous about appearance so I will leave it as it is for now, maybe just a bit of touch up paint. No point in going to any great expense or effort just yet  if  further minor scuffs are  likely over the coming years.  Yes I am a 'it will only get dirty again' kind of guy.

I was hoping to see the back of those plastic fan thingies  but the new colour scheme does  look better IMO .
The reason for admitting my embarrassing misfortune -   I think the dark fans protrude more from the wheel than before  so possibly offer better protection to the diamond cut alloy.  The fan is more likely to  take first hit if grazing the kerb.

Maybe its just as well that half my miles will be done on my other set of wheels  which are less vulnerable to kerbing damage.   

[Tombola]

One of the first things I did when I took delivery of my Advance was to remove the wheel trims, I don't like the look of them and all the brake dust and road crud will build up at the back of them, how are we expected to clean the alloys, I would have happily paid a bit more for the alloys fitted to the crosstar, I'm pleased with the look of the alloys without the trims

[ahavoja]

I also scuffed my Crosstar's both original 6x16" passenger side wheels on a kerb within the first month of ownership. I suppose the 185mm wide tyre is not wide enough to protect the 6" wide wheel from touching the kerb. My narrower 5.5x15" winter wheels don't have any scuffs yet although the tyres have sometimes touched a kerb. Presumably a 195mm wide tyre could protect the 6" wide wheel from scuffs better than the stock 185mm wide tyre.

[dayjavoo]

I was devastated to put a scuff on one of my pristine diamond-cut alloys.  All put right with a visit to a specialist wheel restorer though at an eye-watering price of £140.  I understand that since  it involves skimming the wheel surface it can't be done too many times on the same wheel, so it's reminded me to be more careful.

[Westy36]

Sorry to hear it, but sadly, these things happen. One of the advantages of running an old car, the damage blends in with 11yrs of 'patina'.

I was dreading informing my wife but she took it quite well - suspiciously well   

Hmmm....perhaps Mrs LV knows more than she's letting on! 

[Bristol_Crosstar]

There are other wheel options on the Jazz without the plastic covers for about an extra £1K when new, that's one of the reasons I chose the Sport, I'm sure any Honda dealership would supply the other options for a price if anyone wants an upgrade.

[guest13757]

My Jazz Advance Sport recently suffered a graze on one of the alloy cut/skimmed shiny wheels, and it is of course the front left one with the kerb magnet installed.  Incidentally it wasn’t me that did it and I will say no more.  It was a good hit too because it took a bite out the sidewall on the tyre.

I did a DIY fix on the wheel and it came up looking good and with a bit of road dirt/dust you wouldn't know it was there.  The next problem was the tyre because it was exposing the chords and although they weren’t damaged it essentially made the tyre illegal – and we all know insurance companies look for a way out – so it had to be sorted.

The original tyres were Yokohama BlueEarth A, and I was in a quandary as how to proceed because I am very fussy about my tyre configuration and wear similarity.  I decided to go with replacing all four even though the others had 6mm tread, and I went for Chinese Ilink L Grip at £56 each fitted.  The speed /load rating was the same and the A to E rating fiche was identical to the Yokohama's, so for a very reasonable price I have four new boots.

[Lord Voltermore]

I also scuffed my Crosstar's both original 6x16" passenger side wheels on a kerb within the first month of ownership. I suppose the 185mm wide tyre is not wide enough to protect the 6" wide wheel from touching the kerb. My narrower 5.5x15" winter wheels don't have any scuffs yet although the tyres have sometimes touched a kerb. Presumably a 195mm wide tyre could protect the 6" wide wheel from scuffs better than the stock 185mm wide tyre.

Narrower rim width might cause the side walls to bulge out more keeping rims further away from the kerb. . But side wall profile is also a big factor.    The standard jazz comes with two wheel  /tyre size options.   185/60/R15  and 185/55 /R16.    The side wall profile( 55 or 60)  is actually a percentage of the tread width.     15" wheels the side wall is 60% of  185mm  = 111mm   . !6" wheels its  55% of 185mm   = 101 mm  .     This difference of 1 cm can make all the difference.   I have a set of wheels  in both sizes ,both J6 rim width.  I compared each by standing it against the average height kerb  outside my house.  The lower  16" tyre profile  leaves the plastic fan quite close to touching the kerb.  The extra 1cm tyre profile on the 15" was just enough to raise rim height higher than this kerb ,reducing the chances of damage.

I had one or two minor scuffs on my previous Jazz  but they were fairly unobtrusive as it was silver paint on light coloured plastic.    Now the fans are dark anthracite  any scuffs penetrating to  light plastic will be more obvious.     
I may need to find some form of touch up paint.  Has anyone found a good colour match?

I have seen photos of the all black alloy  EX wheels without their silver fans.   Can anyone post a photo of the black and polished alloy  advanced ones without their dark fans?   If not I  will try and do one when I swop wheels. But I dont need to try this 'dodge'  myself.  It may work quite well on the ex but the fans do offer some slight protection and I wouldnt want to increase the chances of damaging the alloy  faces. 

BTW if anyone new to the forum /mk4  is wondering why  the fate of   plastic hub caps matters so much they are unique  to the  car and Honda charge silly money for replacements. 

[ahavoja]

But side wall profile is also a big factor.

That may explain why I haven't been able to scuff my winter wheels yet. My winter tyres are 65% profile, so they have 120mm side wall height. I would have wanted 70% profile tyres byt they don't sell 185/70R15 sized winter tyres anywhere, so I bought 185/65R15.

[Lord Voltermore]

I think I have discovered why this wheel design is particularly vulnerable to kerb damage.   If you look at my original wheel photo above  you can see a black band between the silver facing of the wheel and the tyre wall/bead .    This is actually a lip or shoulder which means the vulnerable  face of the wheel sits 5mm further out from the tyre bead than it might otherwise. Or in other words there is 5mm less   tyre   side wall bulge keeping the wheel away from  a kerb  .   I have done a drawing which I hope explains what I mean   (done with an unsteady mouse - sorry,  I will increase its allowance of cheese but cut down on its wine.   

You can ,I hope see that the tyre bulge  only keeps the plastic 10 mm away from a kerb and the alloy 15mm. Not much.  Also the effective height of the tyre sidewall (excluding bulge) is only about 70mm  with  the 185/55R16 tyre .   I will try to give equivalent measurements for my 185/60/R15 when they are fitted to the car.   

[Tombola]

I have seen photos of the all black alloy  EX wheels without their silver fans.   Can anyone post a photo of the black and polished alloy  advanced ones without their dark fans?   If not I  will try and do one when I swop wheels. But I dont need to try this 'dodge'  myself.  It may work quite well on the ex but the fans do offer some slight protection and I wouldnt want to increase the chances of damaging the alloy  faces. 

BTW if anyone new to the forum /mk4  is wondering why  the fate of   plastic hub caps matters so much they are unique  to the  car and Honda charge silly money for replacements.

I would like to help but I cannot upload the the photos I have, the file size is too big, very frustrating, but I am glad I removed the fans   

[ahavoja]

Nice drawing, Lord Voltermore. Is the 70 mm wheel-to-road distance so short, because the weight of the car is compressing and bulging out the tyre?

In that case, increasing the tyre pressure could increase the 70 mm distance, which is good, but it may also shorten the horizontal 10 mm wheel-to-kerb-line distance, which is bad.

When I took off the Crosstar's 16" stock wheel and placed it flat on ground, I had a feeling that the outside face of the wheel was actually touching the ground. So the wheel seems to protrude past the tyre sidewall, when the the tyre is not loaded by the car's weight.

[Lord Voltermore]

Nice drawing, Lord Voltermore. Is the 70 mm wheel-to-road distance so short, because the weight of the car is compressing and bulging out the tyre?

In that case, increasing the tyre pressure could increase the 70 mm distance, which is good, but it may also shorten the horizontal 10 mm wheel-to-kerb-line distance, which is bad.

When I took off the Crosstar's 16" stock wheel and placed it flat on ground, I had a feeling that the outside face of the wheel was actually touching the ground. So the wheel seems to protrude past the tyre sidewall, when the the tyre is not loaded by the car's weight.

I did the measurements yesterday  in the rain with less than perfect equipment and methods .   I have had another look .   Front tyres were on 33 psi ,rears on 32 psi on my gauge . so maybe slightly low. Measurements are still approximate. Road to rim height 70mm front wheels , 75mm rears , presumably due to different car weight distribution.     I then laid the  straight edge of a steel ruler across the wheel   resting on the tyre side wall at each end.  I was shocked to find  the ruler actually touched the tips of the plastic fans  in many cases with the tyre wall giving no protection. A few blades did have a  slight clearance  which suggests the plastic fitting is inherently a bit warped   and not 100% precise.  I checked they were firmly attached.     The vulnerable alloy is only recessed by about 5mm    I must be careful when I, or a tyre fitter, remove wheels they are not laid on their front face.   

I have also done a similar check on my 15" aftermarket alloys fitted with 185/60/R15 tyres.  Road to rim height 100mm. This may reduce to about 90mm with the weight of the car.    Tyre wall bulge to alloy  wheel rim  is recessed by about 20mm  at the tyre bead.  I have used these wheels for about 14,000 miles , no damage so far.    But the straight edge test  does touch the alloy towards  the centre of the wheel so care is still needed  when the wheel is removed and stored. 

I would like to help but I cannot upload the the photos I have, the file size is too big, very frustrating, but I am glad I removed the fans   

What I normally do is copy a jpg to my desktop, and  resize the copy by reducing its jpeg quality  to about 50% .(or lower if necessary)   This gives a big reduction in file size without affecting quality  very much.  I then upload this copy which can then be deleted.  Exact method may vary depending on what  image viewer/editing  software you are using but its normally quite easy.

[Tombola]

This is without the fans, centre caps and Honda stickers from ebay,  thanks for the info LV

[Lord Voltermore]

Pleased to help. They certainly look good without the fans.

I cant make up my mind. The fans do at least offer a small amount of protection  in that they will take first strike if you gently graze a kerb.But very likely to be damaged if you do touch the kerb.  But  relatively easy to smarten up again with a bit of filler and a waft of paint  .

The tyre wall doesnt raise the wheel  height above most kerbs, and it wouldnt take much of a graze to overcome the tyre bulge and damage the polished alloy.   But maybe not much more of a strike  to damage both the fan and the alloy  .  The strange lip on the wheel may mean there is more 'meat' in the alloy for specialists to skim out and  repair minor damage. (at a cost)

On the plus side I have just been looking at the wheels on other cars. The Jazz is certainly not alone  in  having minimal kerbing protection  .Some look  worse, especially those with larger wheels and low profile tyres.
Mrs LV and I need to be more careful I think