Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure

[Jazzik]

An interesting slant - thanks for posting. Just an impression but I sense that a critical time for failure is just after a service, especially if the brake fluid has been changed. I had a 3 year service on the 15th of October

Indeed, an interesting slant. Our Jazz had its 3 year service on August 28, the brake fluid was changed.  So that was two and a half months ago.
Does that mean we are lucky or that things will go wrong tomorrow? Everyone please fingers crossed!

[Hicardo]

I had my third service in May 2024, and fingers crossed, all OK too 

[coldstart]

.... I've come across an article by a mechanic who believes the servicing procedure is at fault as well as an iffy part (Mine has just had a service, no faults prior to that).

Please be very careful with this type of assumption!

My understanding from the documents provided in this (quite lengthy) thread is, that the defect:

a) has absolutely nothing to do with any service intervention whatsoever
b) is caused by a manufacturing fault (some kind of corrosive "oil" used in the production getting on an electronics board)
c) is occuring around somewhere three years after production
d) thus coincideds with e.g. the mandatory brake fluid change after three years and/or any other kind of yearly maintenance

I take from the cases reported in this thread that the failure seems to unfortunately occur shortly after the three year standard warranty has expired.

There is a rule-of-thumb reaction-time vs temperature saying that any exothermic (I don't intend to annoy you with going into this in detail) chemical reaction runs roughly twice as fast for every 10 degrees increase of the ambient temperature, the main ambient temperature of the car involved gets into the equation as well:

If the car is mainly in a warmer environment the error will probably appear sooner than on a car kept in a cooler environment.

Long story short: If the car contains an affected brake feel simulator it is kind of a ticking time bomb.

Fortunately Honda UK seem to have come around and pay for the damages (while imposing an NDA) whereas Honda Germany seems to proactively contact affected customers of this issue.

[Jazzik]

Every time I get in the car I pay close attention to whether I hear this ticking sound:

I haven't heard it yet, I hope it stays quiet. I wouldn't like this bomb to go off...

[Cobb2]

BlueNile -I am fairly confident that if you don't just accept a big bill - you should be able to chase HondaUK customer services up or get your garage to and they ought to cover the costs. This thread is exceptionally long now - maybe the longest here - I'm not sure- but if you trawl through you will find examples now of success in Honda covering what is essentially a manufacturing fault even out of warranty. It was quite difficult for some of us to get full compensation early on this year but hopefully should be easier now.  However it hasn't been classified as a Safety Issue since there are warning lights telling you not to drive. Probably this is why DVSA have not insisted on a recall here. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Lord Voltermore]

Early reports from Honda was that the problem was due to oil contamination during assembly. I kind of imagined one particular factory, or assembly worker squirting too much oil or grease  in, or putting an oil seal in upside down or some such.  Later it was said to be  sensors from a third party electrical manufacturer were being corroded and penetrated by brake fluid.  I think it said the sensors were a fairly ubiquitous  electrical component  used by many manufacturers  in many different applications .I think this is a more plausible explanation  ,and the earlier report may have  been dumbed down a bit for consumers or lost in translation. .    Presumably they have since  improved the coating /plating on the sensors. 

If this is the cause  then as coldstart says  the rate of corrosion would be fairly constant, subject to maybe temperature environment , or depth and quality of plating on the sensor etc.     But I believe when brake fluid is changed it is pumped out  under pressure and its possible that the fluid dynamics flowing over the sensors might hasten an  immanent failure. 

[John60]

Just my experience. My Jazz Hybrid EX was first registered in 06/2020. It is low mileage having done about 16000. It was left in my garage for 2 weeks with the handbrake on. Yesterday when I tried to drive it I got the brake warning lights, the alarm and a stop indicator. The car drove fine and the brakes felt different but worked. I thought the issue was that a sensor had stuck due to leaving the handbrake on for a couple of weeks. Anyway I checked that there was no hydraulic fluid loss and rechecked that the brakes worked. I then drove it the short distance to my local Honda dealer. They are fixing it under the three year extended warranty I bought in June.
The dealer diagnosed the fault as Failed brake servo/pedal simulator  giving no indication that it was a known issue. They said it would be fixed by early next week.
I will probe more when I collect it. My takeaway from the experience is that owning these cars with complex electronics is a none starter without a warranty. I would strongly advise anyone who has not done so get one.

[Kremmen]

What also often helps is a full Honda service history so it's been serviced according to the book with any service bulletins done

[wilx]

Hi!

I don't have a Jazz - currently deciding between a 2021/22 jazz and a similar age Fabia, but despite a very positive test drive I was spooked by the brake issue. I can't risk buying a car that has even a 1% chance of a catastrophic 'cannot drive' fault in the next 12 months, so I just rang Honda UK to try and get some more info.

They couldn't tell me if it was a subset of Jazz cars, or all of the new (2021+) models.
They said it's now policy to fix the issue as a warranty repair at Honda garages, even if the car is out of warranty.
They also told me there will be a recall in the near future, in the UK. Can't confirm if it will be some Jazzes or all of them, but it's coming.

So I guess I either hold off and see if the recall is done in the next two or three months and then buy, or get a Fabia now.

[davejazz]

Just hold off, the Jazz is a fantastic car.

It’s good to hear from a number of sources, that a recall is in the offing.

Allegedly!

[Tombola]

They also told me there will be a recall in the near future, in the UK. Can't confirm if it will be some Jazzes or all of them, but it's coming.

So I guess I either hold off and see if the recall is done in the next two or three months and then buy, or get a Fabia now.

Wilx, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a recall, If the Jazz is your preference and you are buying from a Honda main dealer I would go ahead, if you see the car you want, get the newest MY you can afford and maybe get assurances from the dealer, or negotiate a Honda warranty to clinch the sale   

[Lord Voltermore]

Wilx.I may be wrong  but  I thought the Fabia is just a turbo petrol. And maybe even a manual . So you are also comparing obsolete  technology with new.

 I for one ,having experienced  the silence, fuel economy , immense torque and ease of driving a hybrid ,would be very reluctant to go back to a conventional car, however good. I dont think I am alone.  Hybrids are particularly impressive in urban traffic and the increasingly common stop/start traffic.     

I think you will find some  issues with all makes of car if you research  deep enough  ,including VAG/Skoda. The  comments from Honda would reassure me.

[Tombola]

Wilx.I may be wrong  but  I thought the Fabia is just a turbo petrol. And maybe even a manual . So you are also comparing obsolete  technology with new.

 I for one ,having experienced  the silence, fuel economy , immense torque and ease of driving a hybrid ,would be very reluctant to go back to a conventional car, however good. I dont think I am alone.  Hybrids are particularly impressive in urban traffic and the increasingly common stop/start traffic.     

I think you will find some  issues with all makes of car if you research  deep enough  ,including VAG/Skoda. The  comments from Honda would reassure me.

LV, the Fabia comes with a 1.0ltr 3 pot turbo or 1.5ltr 4 pot turbo, the 1.0ltr is manual or DSG auto and i think the 1.5ltr is DSG only

[Jazzik]

Is the Honda Jazz (GR) Hybrid reliable or not?
Just published today in Germany: TÜV REPORT 2025 (TÜV = Technical Monitoring Association).

DEFECT DWARFS AND DEFECT GIANTS
HONDA JAZZ IS WINNER

The Honda Jazz will receive the gold medal in 2025. Only 2.4 percent of Japanese small cars have significant defects when they drive to the HU (general inspection) for the first time - with an average of 28,000 kilometers on the odometer.


https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report/maengelzwerge-und-fehlerriesen Google translate is your best friend.

I regularly follow a German forum and it is quite striking that nothing (indeed, nothing) is reported about the infamous brake servo failures. I don't hear anything about it here in Poland either..

[coldstart]

...
I regularly follow a German forum and it is quite striking that nothing (indeed, nothing) is reported about the infamous brake servo failures. I don't hear anything about it here in Poland either..

Interestingly enough that Honda Germany and Honda Switzerland have started to contact dealerships and owners of affected vehicules informing them about the problem and announcing an imminent recall once the parts necessary become available in sufficient quantities.

According to the letter "only" pre-facelift Jazzes seem affected, so my MY24 Advance hopefully is defect free!
(I will know for sure, when I don't get any letters from Honda Switzerland before the recall starts)

Moreover my trusty Honda dealership has received the first complaint from a very pissed MY21 Jazz owner.

Threads in german fora mentioning the letters and the impending recall:
https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/break-simulator-failure-t7851819.html
https://forum-alternative-antriebe.de/index.php?topic=9396.0