Honda Jazz Crosstar 2024 with 195/55 R16 studded tires

[Bjorn]

Winter is coming with snow and icy roads. Time to get winter tires on

Before I bought my Jazz Crosstar2024 in September 2023, I did a lot of research. One important thing her in Norway is the question “How is the car as a winter car” The 2021 Crosstar was tested in Sweden and the result looks good

https://www-honda-se.translate.goog/cars/world-of-honda/mer-om-honda/news-events/Jazz-Crosstar-vinner-Vi-Bilagares-vintertest.html?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Another problem often discussed concerning Crosstar is tire size
I bought my new 2024 Crosstar with rim/tires combo 195/55R16 (in addition to the original 185/60 R16 summer tires)
Rim: IMAGE Comet Grey 6X16 4/100 ET45 with Nokian Hakkapelitta 10
This rim is exactly the same dimensions as the original R16 rims on the Crosstar and I could use the original bolts to fasten the tires

Using 195/55 R16 tires on this rim seems to be no problem (I read somewhere that tire size can be from 175 to 205, with 185 and 195 as an ideal size on this rim size)
Many people are worried that a 195/55 R16 tire is not approved. Let’s see;
https://tire-calc.com/comparison/185-60-r16-and-195-55-r16/

Here in Norway the rules are: maximum +/- percentage of circumference from original tires should be max 5% (3% recommended)

As seen in the comparison above, using 195/55 R16 is well within this limit (around 1%) The rules also says there should be enough space in the wheel well and that the tire/rim should not be too close to steering/suspension parts. Well, at least in the 20024 Crosstar, this is not a problem when I look into the wheel well. Using 195/55 R16 will also give 4mm lower ground clearance than 185/60R16. Since the Crosstar is 10 mm higher than other models of Jazz, 4 mm reduction is still a high enough ground clearance for me at least

I bought the rim/tire combo from Honda Norway (via a local Honda dealer) and I believe, at least in Norway and probably also Sweden and Finland (where studded tires are legal) most Honda dealers in the Nordic Countries will probably be happy to deliver your car with this rim/tire combo

Now to the most important: how is the handling of the Crosstar with 195/55 R16 tire
Driving these tires, I really can’t find any difference from the original tire size
The car feel just like it is with 185/60R16 tires (except for a little noise from the studs at low speed, above 50-60 km/h I can’t feel much difference). The lower profile (55 vs 60) may give some harder ride, but so far, I cannot feel any difference here either
Steering and handling of the car feel just as good as with the original tire size. Therefore, in conclusion, using 195/55 R16 on original R16 rims should be no problem, at least in Norway.

[Lord Voltermore]

Thanks. Interesting information.       I would also  be interested to hear   how well you think the hybrid system/electric drive  and traction control systems  cope  in snow and ice.   Any advantage or disadvantage ?

So far I   have only driven for a few  hundred metres in about 4cm of fresh snow on a flat car park.  Too many other cars ,and an adjacent  frozen lake ,  to  risk turning the car park into a skid pan for some more challenging tests. (some would call it playing  . ) But I think the car and its all season tyres coped quite well.       

[ahavoja]

Nice choice of tyre! I chose the studless version for this winter (Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5 in size 185/65R15) and it feels quieter than the original summer tyre of Crosstar (Dunlop Enasave EC300+ 185/60R16). I've been quite happy with it so far. Haven't missed the studs yet.

Unfortunately due to my small tyre size choice my speedometer error is now 6% with the winter tyres. With original summer tyres it was only 3%.

I would also  be interested to hear   how well you think the hybrid system/electric drive  and traction control systems  cope  in snow and ice.   Any advantage or disadvantage ?

The smooth and continuous torque from the electric motor, without any gear changes or other interruptions, helps to avoid wheel spin when accelerating from traffic lights. Turning on the econ mode may help even a bit more, as it makes the accelerator pedal less responsive.

But if I press the accelerator pedal too hard, the front wheels will start to spin/slide on ice or snow, and they keep spinning until I ease the pressure on the pedal. I was hoping the traction control could limit the motor speed to prevent the front wheels from spinning, but it doesn't seem to limit it. Only the yellow warning light on the dashboard lights up. While the front wheels spin, the front of the car can wander left or right and you can't steer much, until you ease your foot on the accelerator pedal.

[Lord Voltermore]

This is my first car with traction control  and I have been longing to try it out in some decent snow.   But so far  there has been very little.  Once last winter when it went up my steep driveway in the uk  without fuss, and earlier this month in the car park  in the Dolomites  - the roads themselves where mostly clear.   Both times it was fresh snow only about  4cm deep.

From what I have read  traction control can sometimes be a problem  if you are trying to pull out of deep snow, soft sand  ,up a steep hill or make a rapid getaway etc .  The system suppresses the  engine  so much  you dont have enough power.  And on some cars you cannot  switch  the system off even if you need the extra power.  I think you can switch it off on the  Jazz.       But i'm surprised it  gives wheelspin initially and only controls  it if you back off on the throttle.   Maybe the torque from the electric drive is easier for the driver to control, especially in econ mode,  and there is less need to supress engine power .You get full power   initially but if this spins the wheels, it doesnt supress power whether you like it or not.  Its more  more controlled if you back off the throttle.      Please. I want to play in snow   

[Bjorn]

I have only testet on roads with very little snow and slippery wet ice. Not yet tried in deep snow and really slippery icy roads. But according to the Swedish test:

"The extensive test naturally includes driving on motorways and minor roads, most of them with winter conditions. Quite naturally, braking and cornering are then included in the driving exercises. But the test also includes starting on slopes, noise control, heat measurements, loading of skis, for example, and slalom running between women."
"The worse the road conditions, the more of a tug of war it became to get the Jazz at the wheel", is one of the comments. In the report, they describe the Jazz as follows: "A fantastic car to lie right on the road", "first-class driving characteristics" and "it makes you feel safe when you need it the best - I'm impressed". "
"A well-calibrated anti-spin system means that the Jazz Crosstar chews its way forward unhindered in both loose snow and uphill slopes"."

I am looking forward to try it on really challenging roads, can be bad here sometimes. Pure thick ice covered with snow.
I have been driving with studs for the last 10 years or so. Had studless winter tires for a while, but after an ugly incident I changed to studded. Then, even without driving, I just slided sideways into a house just after releasing the wheel in a downhill road.
I know that premium winter tires like the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5 are very good in most winter conditions and just as good as studded on snowy roads without ice. In fact, here in my hometown in southern Norway most drive studless (in many town there’s an extra tax driving with studded tires)
But some days are really bad here. Many days, with icy roads, when driving my old Berlingo with Michelin studded tires I have seen many cars struggling to stay on the roads while my car was like glued to the road
I also have a cabin in the mountain and there roads are so icy and slippery most of the winter that studded premium tires are without doubt the safest

https://www-klikk-no.translate.goog/motor/bil/pa-dette-foret-er-det-egentlig-bare-piggdekk-som-duger-7212959?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[Bjorn]

 I was also given Dunlop Enasave EC300+ 185/60R16 when I bought the car. I noted that these were much more noisy then the summer tires Goodyear efficientgrip performance 2 I have on my Berlingo

in fact, I think Goodyear efficientgrip performance 2 is the most quiet summer tires I have ever driven on

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Goodyear/EfficientGrip-Performance-2.htm

[Bjorn]

I know from reading this forum that many drive with all weather tires in many non-nordic countries. Here is what the experts says about that in Norway

https://www-mynewsdesk-com.translate.goog/no/dekkmann/pressreleases/advarer-mot-helaarsdekk-2041025?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=wapp

After driving on winter roads in Norway, Sweden and Finland for 40 years I would only drive on premium studless winter tires or premium studded. Every winter we have loads of foreign cars and trucks driven off the road due to bad tires (and of cause also many Norwegians with bad tires drive off the road also)

So I you think about driving here in the winter I would definitely recommend to invest in good premium winter tires.

[Lord Voltermore]

Although I am a fan of all season tyres they are really only suitable for  those  parts of europe where snow   is  fairly uncommon   .  If you live in a Nordic country,  or high in the mountains,  with regular snow and roads that may be ploughed but remain snow covered all winter,  you really need full nordic winter tyres or even studs.   But these are unsuitable for use in summer,.

I can remember only about 15 years ago parts of europe that got regular snow most years,.It was normal to change to winter tyres  .As well as giving better grip these had an additional advantage. The deep treads broke up the snow surface leaving it almost  like gravel, that gave surprisingly good grip.   Unlike in the uk where  everyone used summer tyres  which polish snow into smooth ice.   But  those  countries have had noticeably less snow in recent years  and many drivers now use all season tyres all year. 

 But the test also includes starting on slopes, noise control, heat measurements, loading of skis, for example, and slalom running between women."

Interesting translation, that the Swedes use women as slalom poles    When I finally get to test the car in some decent snow maybe my wife and daughter could help.      But in English we say  poles, which is equally  unfair to people from Poland. 

Thanks again.  The Swedish reviewers seemed quite impressed. 

[Bjorn]

It's a bad transation. In Swedish:

"slalomk�ng mellan koner"

kone =wife (singular) in Norwegian, Swedish and Danish
koner= wives (plural)

They of course mean (Traffic) Cones. Funny translation still

[Bjorn]

 
 
"Unlike in the uk where  everyone used summer tyres  which polish snow into smooth ice"

Problem here too (many using studless winter tires)

https://www-nettavisen-no.translate.goog/okonomi/advarer-norge-trenger-flere-bilister-med-piggdekk/s/5-95-916352?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=wapp


Another problems with the high percentage of studless tires here is the need to salt the roads. Due to this excessive salting, a brand new car may show serious rust damage after a few years here (unless you wash the entire car, wheel weel and underbody once a week)

They usually don't salt the roads in the interior or mountains where temps are commonly down to below -10-15 C in the winter. (no effect of salting).

In fact, in Norway, it's common to see used car sales ad like "car not driven on salted roads"

[ahavoja]

I was also given Dunlop Enasave EC300+ 185/60R16 when I bought the car. I noted that these were much more noisy then the summer tires Goodyear efficientgrip performance 2 I have on my Berlingo

in fact, I think Goodyear efficientgrip performance 2 is the most quiet summer tires I have ever driven on

EC300+ has quite good noise rating of 67 dB. Efficientgrip Performance 2 is almost as good, 68 dB. (These are only external noise ratings, so the noise inside the car can be something different.) Could it be that Berlingo is a quieter car (inside the cabin) than Jazz?
 
The roads in Finland are so rough and noisy, especially after winter after studded tires have roughened them up, that I can feel the doors, dashboard and steering wheel of Jazz vibrate when driving at highway speeds. How is it in other countries and with other cars?

[Hicardo]

UK roads are just awful after winter, nothing to do with studded tyres, as 90 + percent drive on summer tyres all year round, but because there's dwindling investment in infrastructure, plus a lot of long distance haulage on the roads, that should really be by rail.  In East Sussex where I live, the roads in the countryside are literally awful.  Time to write to MP (who will obviously just ignore me)

I drive on Falken All Seasons in Crosstar standard size, and they're pretty good for most of our weather here. I would consider going back to unstudied winter / summer combo though 

[Lord Voltermore]

I drove from Kent into East (then west) Sussex  recently and was quite shocked how bad even the primary A roads have become. I have known much worse in some other countries in the past but at least you knew to expect potholes. And many have since improved their roads a lot.  In some ways the UK is worse.  The road may be OK  until suddenly its not, and it takes you by surprise.

[Hicardo]

Agreed.  I drive up north quite a lot to see family, travelling through several counties, and East Sussex is definitely the poor relation when it comes to road surfaces!! 

[Ext3h]

One unexpected experience with the Jazz when driving in fresh snow: the front wheel well is suffering from massive ice buildup, up to the point where your steering angle is reduced even with smaller tires.

The geometry has a couple of latches where the ice really catches on, and sticks for days until thawed.

Also... The front ultrasound parking sensors really don't like ice buildup either. One already broke for and appears to have blown its seal.