Hybrid battery fail.

[MRCLICKCLICK]

When I was talking with the engineers at local dealership I raised the question - if the hV battery failed could the car still act as a stand alone ICE - yes was the answer - dont want to test that - but seems to be useful. Anybody had that experience???

[Kenneve]

Don’t really understand that answer.

The engine is started by the generator acting as a motor to spin the engine, so if the HV battery fails, then how does it start the engine?

I accept that, with the right electronic control, and with the engine running, it should be possible for engine/generator unit to supply power to the drive motor to move the car. (A basic petrol electric drive)

[5thcivic]

I assume if it worked it would only be possible in overdrive gear, but maybe with enough revs to get you moving and home?

[Nicksey]

My car always seems to start cold with the engine first, only on occasion (reverse) does it start and move off quietly via full electric. I assume even if the HV battery failed, it is still part of the electric circuit and still the connection via the generator the engine would fire up.
One of the plus points of owning a hybrid as opposed to a full electric was in my opinion, that after 8 years (which is what Honda guarantee the battery for) if the battery fails or only reaches a very small percentage of its charge, I would still be left with a very economical 1.5 engine.. that even after 8 years would have a far less stressed and wear free life compared to a non hybrid petrol engine that had done the same mileage.

[5thcivic]

There is no gearbox, if the HV battery was so poor it could not spin the motor very much you would have a single overdrive gear ICE car, not optimum for normal driving. I assume if there is a limp home mode for HV failure the 12V battery would have to run the micro circuits and spark plugs, and have software to enable enough revs to keep moving at low speed? but it would not be low mpg or pleasant driving.

[coldstart]

I'm with @Kenneve here: If the HV battery fails, we are in deep sh*t!

The manual states on p399:
Be carful not to let the High Voltage battery drain too much. If the battery level becomes close to zero, it will make it impossible to start the power system.

So, without power on the HV battery the car will impossibly start. There's even a special warning symbol if the HV battery runs  extremely low (and the car is still operating!) - The "resolution" is: Contagt a dealer immediately (bottom of p132)

[Lord Voltermore]

Maybe they mean  that if the HV battery no longer holds a full charge due to age etc   but still holds some,  that the car will still be usable, because of its ICE replenishing it.  ( Although the ICE would probably have to be running more often than usual to cope.  )    Unlike a full EV where the road performance and already low range  would be seriously compromised if the HV battery can no longer hold a full charge.   

[coldstart]

Maybe they mean  that if the HV battery no longer holds a full charge due to age etc   but still holds some...

The manual is quite specific about the fact: No charge (or very low charge) of the HV battery = no luck!
The hybrid system is dependent on a resonably charged and operational HV battery.

On the upside: If you are using the car conforming to its intended use (which, by the way is to actuallly and regularly drive it instead of letting it sit and collect dust) you hopefully will never ever encounter this condition.

[Wilmo]

Given the likely cost of a new HV battery does this mean that the Jazz is a write off should that battery fail outside the 8 year warranty?

Is this another, expensive,  example of in-built obsolescence?

[Kremmen]

The cost of replacement hybrid batteries is considerably less than a full EV battery

Tesla and Merc EV battery replacement is about £17k

[Lord Voltermore]

Given the likely cost of a new HV battery does this mean that the Jazz is a write off should that battery fail outside the 8 year warranty?

Is this another, expensive,  example of in-built obsolescence?

I think the batteries are intended to last 'the life of the car'  .  Of course car manufacturers have a different view of how long a new car should last  than the consumer. 

Any 8 year old car could become beyond economic repair if something big needs repair.     Is it not likely that in 8 years time ,with the increasing numbers of Hybrids and EV's that are now too old for owners to pay silly main dealer prices for OE parts   there will be many more specialists  rebuilding batteries with new cells, rejuvinating batteries, supplying used batteries, or cheaper aftermarket alternatives etc.   . Some of these may be even make the car perform better  due to updated battery technology.    It might be possible to  replace the HV battery for not much more than a replacment clutch.Something the Jazz  Mk4 wont need replacing  because it doesnt have one.
 I think early 2020's hybrids will still be sought after on the used car market for many years yet.     If I'm wrong so be it . I aim to sell the car long before its 8 years old   

[shufty]

The cost of replacement hybrid batteries is considerably less than a full EV battery

Tesla and Merc EV battery replacement is about £17k

...And a P1 is $130,000 

[mitchelln]

From the video I saw that described the hybrid drive train, the ICE only fully engages with the wheels above 62mph (this is one reason why the fuel efficiency starts dropping off significantly above this speed). Below that, it's the electric motor only fed off the HT battery, which the ICE is replenishing. So, dud HT battery means no tractive force.

I couldn't get a straight answer from Honda about what their 5 year warranty actually meant. I specifically asked if there a level of degradation at which they will replace it. They couldn't tell me.

Suspect going forward, like other EV's, there will be a number of 3rd party replacements becoming available. I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising companies will start offering higher capacity batteries at some point. There are companies that fit higher capacity cells to Nissan Leafs, for example.

[Marco1979]

The physical or mechanical connection between engine and wheels occurs above 70 kmph which is 43 mph. The fact that fuel economy drops at higher speeds is caused by air drag, not by this mechanical connection (which is a nearly 100% efficient one).

[Lincolnshire Rambler]

I have read somewhere (that I will try and find from where) the new gen Honda hybrids have been designed for 300,000 KM  before they need replacing. Unlike some super cars which are expected to run to just 60,000 K
Just keep up the servicing !