Failed to start... again

[Kremmen]

As posted a few times, dealers don't tend to fully charge the 12v battery so it does need either a good run or a full trickle to top it up.

If you collect and just do lots of short runs or days of inactivity then it can discharge to the point where it's insufficient and can damage itself.

Once it's gone completely flat it will more than likely self discharge, even overnight.

Been there, got the T-shirt

[Jazzik]

As posted a few times, dealers don't tend to fully charge the 12v battery so it does need either a good run or a full trickle to top it up.

Your dealer clearly does... 

My local Honda dealer had CTEK wired in to all showroom cars.

When I visited they weren't fully connected but the orange black connector on the end of the wire coming from under bonnet was a giveaway.

If I haven't used mine for 2 weeks, not uncommon, then a full CTEK for me and never had any issues.

If we haven't used ours for several weeks, what happened, we never had any issues without CTEK or whatever charger.

These "Failed to start... again" stories remind me of this: 'He who fears he shall suffer, already suffers what he fears.' (Michel de Montaigne) 

[pauly58]

Just to clarify : When we collected our car it is an hours drive home, about 40 miles, the week after we drove to our son's ; over 200 miles each way. The car is used at least twice every week, half an hours drive each way to the shops.

We had the car two months when it first failed. I think Lord Voltemore raises a good point about the time in transit from Japan, but of course not every battery is failing, I think ours was possibly allowed to go flat when on the dealers forecourt.

The service receptionist laughed when I spoke about trickle charging, he said there should be no need. Certainly there seems to be more of a problem with the Yaris Hybrid batteries, again why, I don't know.

[John Ratsey]

The service receptionist laughed when I spoke about trickle charging, he said there should be no need. Certainly there seems to be more of a problem with the Yaris Hybrid batteries, again why, I don't know.

Perhaps a factor is the total time between getting onto a boat in Japan and reaching the customer. The time on the boat is a constant but the time sitting in the car park at the port at this end and then the time sitting at the dealer before handing over are both variable. There will be short periods of usage during unloading from the boat plus loading/unloading on the delivery transporter but these will be short time and distance. I also have to wonder if Honda have set the DC battery charging electronics to not give a higher initial charge rate.

A locked vehicle shouldn't need trickle charging unless it's sitting for weeks as everything is powered down. I did, however, notice that the vehicles on display at my dealers all had charger cables connected to the batteries and emerging from the bonnet. It was explained that with doors being opened and courtesy lights coming on then they gave the batteries top-up charges.

[Kremmen]

I don't think a locked car shuts down every circuit so there is some drain albeit low. Alarm, remote transmitter listening for keypress, etc

I remember talking to a tech, years ago about new Civics, and when delivered to dealers some of the fuses were not inserted to help stop battery drain.

Another tip was to use the double locking as that shuts down more circuits, whether that's still the case I don't know.

[madasafish]

Generally, how long should we expect a 12v battery to last;  surely five years at least?

My car is used most days. If my Jazz battery fails early I'll be looking for a free replacement.

https://www.mastervolt.com/determining-the-lifespan-of-a-battery/#:~:text=12%20Volt%20Gel%20or%20AGM,80%20%25%20of%20its%20original%20capacity.

Yuasa batteries OEM fit
: Toyota Yaris 11 years
Jazz: 10 years

Bosch replacements 4 years.(rubbish)
Now Yuasa again.

[Lord Voltermore]

I have read that a modern car with all its electrical computers and other gismos will typically draw 50 milliamps per hour even when the car is not in use. Some a bit less, others a bit more. Its possible that leaving the car unlocked may mean some things are not activated such as the alarm system with its flashing led which might help a little     But they are running 24/7  which works out as 1.2 amps in 24 hours  ,22 amps in 2 weeks.  Its not surprising that a relatively small lead acid battery will struggle.  Typical sailing time from Japan to UK  is 38-40 days  , so unless the batteries are disconnected or put on a trickle charge during the voyage  they could be 100% flat long before they reach europe.  Maybe  a few cars are missed, or the charger not connected up properly.     
Can these figures be correct?  Some are reporting no problems despite long periods of inactivity.  It may be because  the battery could have  just enough battery charge to initiate the start up (with the HV battery doing the heavy lifting) until suddenly it doesnt. (The computer says no )   You dont get the normal prior warning of a low battery -ie sluggish cranking over. 

I need to take my car for a decent run tomorrow      Jazzik . I fear I am already suffering from the fear it wont start.   But not much . I know I can get it started, and Honda can pay for a new battery     

I know a 2010 Corsa diesel that is still going strong on its original OEM  battery  . Not sure of the battery make but its Asian. (Not Yuasa ) .
. 

[Jazzik]

Generally, how long should we expect a 12v battery to last;  surely five years at least?

https://www.mastervolt.com/determining-the-lifespan-of-a-battery/#:~:text=12%20Volt%20Gel%20or%20AGM,80%20%25%20of%20its%20original%20capacity.

Yuasa batteries OEM fit
: Toyota Yaris 11 years
Jazz: 10 years

Bosch replacements 4 years.(rubbish)
Now Yuasa again.

Here 14 pages from the Dutch Toyota Hybrid Forum on the topic of empty batteries:
 https://www.toyotahybrideforum.nl/viewtopic.php?t=12306  (Google Translate is your friend...)

After 4½ years Yaris Hybrid and 14 months Jazz, yes, without CTEK or any other charger, I must have been born under a lucky star...
 

[FMIB]

My thinking is that the best way to reduce drain on the battery when not being used, is to ensure the car is locked. After a certain period of inactivity the car should then go into sleep mode. Resist waking the car by using the app.
Well it did on my Honda E and current Volvo, so I assume the Jazz should do the same.

Yes shipping is typically 40 days from Japan, add in the time from factory to port and port to dealer, then for sure, without charging, the battery will not be at 100% charge on delivery. 

[John Ratsey]

My thinking is that the best way to reduce drain on the battery when not being used, is to ensure the car is locked. After a certain period of inactivity the car should then go into sleep mode.

I always do a double-press of the lock button out of habit as it enables the dead locking whether or not it powers down more features. I think the Jazz has a simple perimeter alarm which is probably activated by the door light switches and wouldn't expect this to draw less power when in standby than an active alarm system which looks for movement in the cabin. The warning LED shouldn't take much power. I was told a couple of years ago by Honda that the telemetry module powers down after several days of inactivity in order to reduce battery drain and the current vehicle status can't be accessed through the app until the vehicle is next turned on.

[Neil Ives]

Perimeter alarm. Really?

[Kremmen]

My 2007 Civic battery had a top window that showed the approximate charge level shown by colour.

I seem to recall, when fully charged the window would produce a clear blue circle.

At that time I was driving 20 miles to and 20 miles from work, 5 days a week, and it took just over 2 weeks for the window to turn blue.

[Lord Voltermore]

I have heard that  'connected' cars  do consume more battery power  when parked due to their communicating with stuff.  Not much, but it all adds up over time.  I wonder if activating the Honda +  bag of tricks  ,increases the load significantly .

[Jocko]

Perimeter alarm. Really?

Not the correct terminology. Poster is referring to an alarm that detects movement inside the car. The normal way to break into a vehicle is to smash a window, open a door and get in. Honda alarm goes off on the door opening . If a thief smashed a window and reaches in the alarm doesn't go off. Good alarm systems detect movement inside the car and would sound when a window is smashed and or a hand thrust inside.

[Neil Ives]

Does my Jazz MY22 have an alarm?