Lead-Acid or Lead-Calcium Battery for the Jazz, which is correct?

[E27006]

I need a new 12V battery,  the Halford's OEM is failing. I think it is a plain Lead-Acid battery.
The Jazz charging system is it designed for Lead-Calcium or Lead -Acid?  There is a difference in the charging regime of the alternator,  fit the wrong battery  and there are compatibility issues with undercharging.
Which technology is correct for a 2006 Jazz 1.4SE? Lead-Acid or Lead Calcium?

[JimSh]

Lead acid.
Put in registration into a site like this
https://www.tayna.co.uk/
Many on this site (myself included) recommend Yuasa.

Edit Just checked for my battery and the site seems much dearer than  it was.
Search the internet for offers.

[culzean]

Try this - Halfrauds will charge you over £90

Unless your car is hybrid

https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx5054/

[E27006]

This is the only technical note  I can find  for the differing technologies, most modern cars use Lead-Calcium CaCa technology

Differences In Charging Between Lead Acid And Lead Calcium Batteries

An ordinary lead-acid battery will require between 12.96 volts and 14.1 volts of charge current to be fully charged. However, a lead-calcium battery will require a charging voltage of not less than 14.8 volts.

The high charge voltage needed means that it is impossible to trickle charge a lead-calcium battery.

When the lead-calcium battery is being used in the car it means the alternator has to continuously run to keep the battery fully charged. However, the rate of self-discharge of a lead calcium battery is low and therefore will work for an extended without needing a charge

A lead-calcium battery will require special charges unlike the ordinary chargers used in the ordinary lead-acid battery. The battery will require a charger that produces between 16.1 volts and 16.50 volts for it to be fully charged.

Any charger producing a voltage of less than 16.1 will mean the battery will take longer to be fully charged and might be partially charged. This means the car alternator will not fully charge the battery unless it runs for an extended period.

[culzean]

Been using Yuasa YBX batteries on our cars for many years, without a single problem, wife has the YBX5054 on her MK2.  Use Yuasa AGM ( absorbed glass mat electrolyte ) on motorbikes as it will not leak when turned upside down or split.   The YBX5054 is a useful upgrade in A/h on original Jazz battery( 40 vs 35 ) and cranking amps ( 360 vs 280 ) - and it comes with a 5 year warranty.

[E27006]

Been using Yuasa YBX batteries on our cars for many years, without a single problem, wife has the YBX5054 on her MK2.  Use Yuasa AGM ( absorbed glass mat electrolyte ) on motorbikes as it will not leak when turned upside down or split.   The YBX5054 is a useful upgrade in A/h on original Jazz battery( 40 vs 35 ) and cranking amps ( 360 vs 280 ) - and it comes with a 5 year warranty.

The datasheet from Yuasa for YBX5054 battery states the battery to be Ca/Ca technology, not lead-acid.   The  confusing issue,  concerns battery lookup tables are split , around 50% recommend Lead Acid, other Ca/Ca.
The OEM battery is a Fukurawa 38B19L-MF,  I cannot find a datasheet which gives the makeup of the OEM battery. That would settle the issue to my satisfaction, but no luck so far.
I have ordered the Yuasa Ca/Ca battery, if I have issues I will buy another battery of the opposite technology.
If anyone can find the Furukawa datasheet , please post on the forum

[Jocko]

I found this:
http://www.siambat.com/15461810/gs-38b19l-mf-

[culzean]

I am sure the Jazz is well able to keep a YBX5054 charged, as even after standing for a week or more if I plug a smart charger into wifes MK2 the green light comes on in less than 10 minutes to show battery voltage is fine, and switches to trickle charge.  If the Jazz charging system was not doing its job the battery would take a lot longer to charge up to get green light on.

[embee]

This page from Yuasa might be of help
https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/

As I read it, the Yuasa 5000 range can be used in place of "traditional" lead/antimony-acid type batteries with no issues.

[culzean]

This page from Yuasa might be of help
https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/

As I read it, the Yuasa 5000 range can be used in place of "traditional" lead/antimony-acid type batteries with no issues.

Ford fitted silver calcium batteries to their vehicles many years ago and tweaked the charging parameters to suit, but many garages and owners fitted the older tech antimony / lead ( antimony / lead alloy grid batteries use more water than calcium lead alloy grids so can need 'topping up' and were not sealed or maintenance free, calcium batteries also produce much less gas when charging than calcium ) - but the charging voltage was too high for antimony and reduced battery life, as well as not charging the batteries properly.  The bulletin is just saying that Yuasa Silver calcium battery is just the same as the original Ford Calcium battery and can be used in Ford vehicles.  It does not actually say that it will replace an antimony grid battery ( but it will, because most cars in last 20 years have had 'smart charging' system ).  Anyway, as I said earlier I have used Yuasa silver 5000 series in MK1 and MK2 Jazz with absolutely no problems.

I think the takeaway is that fitting a lead calcium instead of a lead antimony is OK, but maybe not the other way around.  Cars are fitted with coulomb counting charging systems, which means what goes in and out of the battery is monitored and this avoids over / under charging, but as we have seen can cause its own problems...

[culzean]

Been using Yuasa YBX batteries on our cars for many years, without a single problem, wife has the YBX5054 on her MK2.  Use Yuasa AGM ( absorbed glass mat electrolyte ) on motorbikes as it will not leak when turned upside down or split.   The YBX5054 is a useful upgrade in A/h on original Jazz battery( 40 vs 35 ) and cranking amps ( 360 vs 280 ) - and it comes with a 5 year warranty.

The datasheet from Yuasa for YBX5054 battery states the battery to be Ca/Ca technology, not lead-acid.   The  confusing issue,  concerns battery lookup tables are split , around 50% recommend Lead Acid, other Ca/Ca.
The OEM battery is a Fukurawa 38B19L-MF,  I cannot find a datasheet which gives the makeup of the OEM battery. That would settle the issue to my satisfaction, but no luck so far.
I have ordered the Yuasa Ca/Ca battery, if I have issues I will buy another battery of the opposite technology.
If anyone can find the Furukawa datasheet , please post on the forum

They are both 'lead acid' batteries.  In the Ca/Ca type the calcium is alloyed with the lead grid material to reduce water usage and the amount of hydrogen gas produced ( remember when you had to top up batteries regularly with distilled water ).  In what you describe as 'lead acid' the lead is alloyed with antimony,  which leads to more water loss, slightly lower charging voltage and more hydrogen gas is vented.  The Calcium battery is truly maintenance free and sealed, the other one is not.

[embee]

.....It does not actually say that it will replace an antimony grid battery ......

I had interpreted the information given saying that the Yuasa silver/Ca are suitable as replacements in Fords both before and after 1997. I had put 2 and 2 together and made 4, it's quite possible that was not justified. Everyone must make up their own minds on this one. I've fitted the 5000 series batteries in several vehicles, including old horticultural stuff, and not seen any issues.

"Ford introduced silver calcium batteries worldwide for their vehicles in 1997 together with a smart charging system."
"Yuasa automotive batteries are equally suitable for Ford vehicles made before 1997."

[E27006]

I have ordered a Yuasa Ca/Ca battery and it's too late to change the order.
I will fit the Yuasa and see how it goes, I think the issue may well be the CaCa Yuasa will rarely  reach 100% charge,  this may be a problem if I do not use the car for several weeks over winter, the battery may  self-discharge from near-full-charge to low charge and fail to spin the engine.
I have spanners and chargers to deal with that, I  could  remove the battery and store indoors where it can be trickle charged as required
 

[culzean]

I have ordered a Yuasa Ca/Ca battery and it's too late to change the order.
I will fit the Yuasa and see how it goes, I think the issue may well be the CaCa Yuasa will rarely  reach 100% charge,  this may be a problem if I do not use the car for several weeks over winter, the battery may  self-discharge from near-full-charge to low charge and fail to spin the engine.
I have spanners and chargers to deal with that, I  could  remove the battery and store indoors where it can be trickle charged as required

You will be absolutely fine, I have fitted Yuasa Ca/Ca Silver to our Honda cars for many years, and never a hint of problem, and as I said when I do plug a charger in the light goes green ( full charge ) in about 10 minutes.  The Yuasa Silver has 'extremely low' self discharge and the old ones that were taken off were still well charged even after months of sitting on garage floor and the 1.5 amp smart charger I use showed a green light in a couple of hours max...    Also there is no need to use vaseline or terminal grease on modern polypropylene cases batteris as it was the acid fumes leaked / vented by the older rubber cased batteries that made terminals corrode ( the positive one especially.  I just polish terminals and clamps with the green 3M abrasive nylon and clamp up. 

[E27006]

Installed the old Hallfords battery, now fully charged and still serviceable but exhibiting self discharg/ low cranking  capacity.Measured the voltage with the Halfords lead-acid battery in the car.
Measured on the posts of the battery , the car is charging at idle rpm lights on or off at 14.65V.
I.e quite a bit over the 14.1V of a lead-acid charging spec, but  a little below below the charging spec for a Ca/Ca of 14.8V. I wish I had thought of taken the measurements a few days back.
From information I found on the web:


" An ordinary lead-acid battery will require between 12.96 volts and 14.1 volts of charge current to be fully charged. However, a lead-calcium battery will require a charging voltage of not less than 14.8 volts."

Reading the info about Ford and Yuasa batteries kindly provided by embee,  it seems Yuasa batteries have a bit of designed-in tolerance to charge voltage, 14.4V to 14.8V
I am happy to be fitting the Yuasa Ca Ca battery when it arrives,and perhaps that Halfords lead acid battery has deteriorated  over  5 years, (the OEM battery lasted 10 years),   due to being pushed a bit too hard by the 14.65 V from the Alternator.
I suppose 5 years is not too bad for a non OEM part,  I guess the new Yuasa may even outlast the car