Fuel that we use in our Jazz

[guest9814]

From 70km/h to 130km/h our engine torque important because engine on this speeds used directly.
And when ice working as generator torque also important, when I recorded in town with car scanner I seen that when ICE run it pushing 5kw of power  to move car and another 10-15 kw to charge HV battery so in total load is 20kw and this on flat road and with speed 40km/h
To spin generator with such load not needed torque ?

[Kenneve]

At 75% efficiency, 20kw is equal to less than 1/2 of the available engine power, so it’s not working particularly hard.

[R2D3]

I've owned an MX-5 and BMW X1.  For both I was advised not to use V-Power fuel as it would just be a waste of money.  Any possible improvement in MPG would be over shadowed by the extra cost of the fuel.  When I did try a tank of V-power in the MX-5 there was no noticeable improvement in performance... but then again I never pushed it.  Another reason not to use premium fuel.

[Kremmen]

I agree.

If your engine is optimised for 95 RON, which ours are, then anything else is normally a waste and any perceived mprovement is a placebo effect.

[guest9814]

I agree.

If your engine is optimised for 95 RON, which ours are, then anything else is normally a waste and any perceived mprovement is a placebo effect.

Maybe i wrongly understand printed in owner manual words - use 95 RON minimum
I understand this as advice not to use fuel with octan rating lower then 95 RON
I currently burning mixture of '95' and 98 RON (30l 95 RON and 10l 98 RON) and i see better fuel economy, for 288 km average fuel economy stay 3.0-3.1l/100km (before mixing i not able to get average below 3.3l/100km) and car computer calculated  that with this fuel consumption i still can get 852km to empty.
Maybe i can see better fuel economy because used 95 RON gasoline has this rating only printed on pump and in reality much lower then 95, and by adding 98 RON to this crap i simple get normal minimum recomended fuel that not compromise engine performance.

[emp]

my dealer said to use E5. Here in Belgium we have E5 (Euro 98) and E10 (Euro 95). My car indicates that both can be used but my dealer advised to use E5. He illustrated it with damaged to a certain part when using E10. Maybe it was just carbon buildup in the EGR system not sure

[stani]

guest9814: That's an interesting finding. And have you tried driving purely on 98 - what is the consumption?

Otherwise, it also depends on the biocomponent content. For example, one network of gas stations in our country offers 95, 95+ and 98. Whereas "95+" has a lower biocomponent content (ethanol) and a higher detergent additive.

[ColinB]

my dealer said to use E5. Here in Belgium we have E5 (Euro 98) and E10 (Euro 95). My car indicates that both can be used but my dealer advised to use E5. He illustrated it with damaged to a certain part when using E10. Maybe it was just carbon buildup in the EGR system not sure

I would suspect your dealer also owns filling stations. If Honda say E10 is OK then I'm not qualified to disagree. My car has been run exclusively on E10 since it was introduced in the UK (around 5 years ago) and it hasn't broken yet. What was this "certain part" and what's the evidence for that being caused by the fuel?

[emp]

my dealer said to use E5. Here in Belgium we have E5 (Euro 98) and E10 (Euro 95). My car indicates that both can be used but my dealer advised to use E5. He illustrated it with damaged to a certain part when using E10. Maybe it was just carbon buildup in the EGR system not sure

I would suspect your dealer also owns filling stations. If Honda say E10 is OK then I'm not qualified to disagree. My car has been run exclusively on E10 since it was introduced in the UK (around 5 years ago) and it hasn't broken yet. What was this "certain part" and what's the evidence for that being caused by the fuel?

ok thanks for the feedback.  Like I mentioned I am not sure which part it was. I will ask him when I have to do service on the car. He showed me photos on his phone. I guess it could be the EGR valve. Indeed he has a Q8 gas station attached to his garage (but I do not use his station because it is too far away).

[Lord Voltermore]

Maybe i can see better fuel economy because used 95 RON gasoline has this rating only printed on pump and in reality much lower then 95, and by adding 98 RON to this crap i simple get normal minimum recomended fuel that not compromise engine performance.

An old quote but still relevant to emp's query (IMO)

I think the 95RON standard  is always maintained.  But ethanol is less volatile than petrol in cold weather  so they do sometimes  drop the percentage of ethanol  in the petrol below the claimed E number in the winter. But sold as normal.    For instance petrol sold as E10   (10% ethanol) may actually be E5  (5%) in winter so engines  runs slightly better   on a cold start. And E5 might be E0.   (A bit like diesel is refined to a different specification in winter months   but not always claimed to be winter diesel  at the pump)

They may not bother changing E10  but they do drop the Ethanol percentage in  the winter  in cold countries which sometimes sell higher E percentages.   

I always use E10 when available.  When I occasionally add maybe 25 -30 litres of E5 to  the remaining 10 -15  litres E10   I admit it may be just possible to imagine the engine might be very slightly quieter, and fuel consumption a tiny bit better  .  . But not  enough   for me to justify the extra cost, or have any concerns about using E10.  Unless I can get the Homer Simpson price. Its heading that way 

I suggest you try the  occasional tank of E5  and decide for yourself whether you detect any difference, or enough to justify the extra cost.  Or try one of the advanced premium  options such as shell V power .      The results  and smooth running of the car may vary anyway depending on brand and location. In some areas   various  brands all come from the same oil refinery.    And the difference between E5 and E10 may  differ depending on whether its summer or winter.

[emp]

my fuel cap mentions both E5 and E10 are fine. It is just that my dealer recommended E5 because (according to him) it would avoid problems with corrosion. If this is justified I do not know. I just have been following his advice. According to their site they have been a Honda dealer since 1976. I guess the current owner is the son because he is relatively young. But I believe he gave me honest advice because he knows I live about 72km (45miles) from their station so I will only visit to have the car serviced not to fill the car up with E5.

[Lord Voltermore]

I suspect if E10 does slightly increase carbon build up on maybe the EGR valve it would only become significant after many miles/kilometers.    Meanwhile you have paid  extra for many thousands of litres of petrol.   .    And those who dont mind paying more for their petrol  because they dont drive many miles/km  would probably never experience the problem anyway.

Take this example.  200,000 km  at 5 litres per 100 km  = 10,000 litres of petrol   ( ) .  if E5 is 5 cents more expensive  than E10  (and the difference may be more in some countries) ,  thats an Extra 500 euros  for a problem you may never have and would cost   much less than 500 euros to fix anyway
  You can argue different figures apply but the principle is there. 

[coldstart]

In additon to Lord Voltermore's thoughts I'd like to add, that the Honda e:HEV drive train keeps the ICE operating at optimal efficency levels.
The fact that it is very hard to see the engine oil on the orange dip stick because it stays so clear (clean) speaks volumes about very clean combustion without much soot!
So, just stick to Honda's specs and enjoy a pint (or two) with the money saved

[Jazzik]

You do indeed sometimes read about carbon deposits caused by E10, like this: "Ethanol can contribute to carbon build-up inside the engine, leading to rough idling, hesitation, and even reduced power output. This is especially noticeable in high-performance or older engines that weren’t designed to handle ethanol blends efficiently." (Perhaps that last sentence already indicates that this problem does not apply to our Jazz? )
Who writes this? https://milexglobal.com/ The manufacturer of a miracle product that cleans your engine: "Fuel additives provide an effective way to combat the drawbacks of ethanol while optimising engine performance."

In any case, it is a somewhat strange story when you read this:

"The Role of Modern Fuels Like E10 and E15
Ethanol-blended fuels like E10 and E15 are widely available in Australia and are often marketed as cleaner-burning options. While these fuels have their benefits, they are not a complete solution to carbon buildup.

Benefits of Ethanol Blends:
Cleaner Combustion: Ethanol burns more completely than traditional petrol, reducing overall emissions."

And who wrote that? A slightly more honest company in Australia.
 https://intakecleaning.com.au/new-cars-still-suffer-from-carbon-buildup/

But there is a business model in scaring people about E10 and making them feel safe again for about £10....

Specialist E10 Protector - Protects the entire fuel system against the negative effects of E10 petrol