Road test Jazz v Yaris

[Westy36]

Having seen both new Yaris and Jazz now, I must congratulate both Toyota and Honda for keeping the new model pretty much the same size. Most manufacturer always make the new model bigger...take the new Corsa and 208, they are so much bigger.

The foot print of the cars may be the same, but the 2020 Jazz is 17% heavier than my the 2008-2015 model.

[JazzMusic]

The foot print of the cars may be the same, but the 2020 Jazz is 17% heavier than my the 2008-2015 model.

The 2020 Jazz is also safer in a crash. New plattform. Weight = crash safety.

[jazzaro]

Another page explaining the I-MMD system.
https://www.marklines.com/en/report_all/rep1257_201402#report_area_2
It's about an Accord Hybrid, so the first generation of the I-mmd (Jazz should have the 3° generation), anyway I found it very interesting.
Open parts 2 and 3 for the whole teardown.

[John Ratsey]

The foot print of the cars may be the same, but the 2020 Jazz is 17% heavier than my the 2008-2015 model.

I expect that much of the increase is due to the power pack, associated electronics and its cooling system.  Getting the higher efficiency without the extra weight is a challenge for the future.

[culzean]

The foot print of the cars may be the same, but the 2020 Jazz is 17% heavier than my the 2008-2015 model.

The 2020 Jazz is also safer in a crash. New plattform. Weight = crash safety.

You wouldn't think extra weight was a benefit if you had seen the volvo ( 2 ton + ) vs  Renault modus

Just to update your beliefs

[Jocko]

Fourteen years difference in safety design.

[culzean]

Fourteen years difference in safety design.

It was just to illustrate that weight isn't everything...

When we were living in Australia they did tests on the 'safety' of 4x4 ( Australia is the home of 4x4, Chelsea tractor - or Pitt Street farmers tractor as they call them over there ) - their findings were if you hit something a fair bit smaller you may be safer in a 4x4,  but if you hit anything stationary ( like a power pole, tree or rock ) or another larger vehicle you were worse off in a 4x4 because the rigid chassis and lack of crumple zones meant that a lot of the energy of the crash was transferred to the occupants bodies.

[Westy36]

That 5th Gear crash test is still shocking to watch. It completely altered my opinion on safety and older cars. As Jocko says, things have moved on a lot. I thought my old Saab 900 and 9000 were safe, and compared to their competitors at the time they probably were, but they wouldn't do well in an NCAP test today.

The 08-15 Jazz is an NCAP 5 star. It might be lower today due to collision avoidance gubbins not being standard fitment, but I would say its a safe car.

 

[Kremmen]

I saw the aftermath of a rear end shunt between a newish and old car. What was noticeable was the amount of 'rust dust' on the road under the old car .

Maybe they get weaker with age.

[jazzaro]

The 08-15 Jazz is an NCAP 5 star. It might be lower today due to collision avoidance gubbins not being standard fitment, but I would say its a safe car.

Now it woluld be a 1 or 2 Ncap stars, for collision avoidance gubbins not standard and for body strength: now side and frontal crashes are more severe.

[John Ratsey]

Another page explaining the I-MMD system.
https://www.marklines.com/en/report_all/rep1257_201402#report_area_2
It's about an Accord Hybrid, so the first generation of the I-mmd (Jazz should have the 3° generation), anyway I found it very interesting.

Thanks. Looking up the names of some of the parts manufacturers has found some useful info about the battery characteristics such as this https://www.blue-energy.co.jp/en/products/. It doesn't mention the 2020 Jazz so maybe it's either not been updated or Honda has changed supplier to get something even better.

[JazzMusic]

2008-2015 is a wide range. They're changed sth between 2013 and 2015. Have a look at the small overlap tests in the US. Small overlap = 20%. It's a hard test but the better one than the Euro NCAP.

[jazzaro]

2008-2015 is a wide range. They're changed sth between 2013 and 2015. Have a look at the small overlap tests in the US. Small overlap = 20%. It's a hard test but the better one than the Euro NCAP.

The single small overlap test is not better but different.  USDM Fit have different bumper frame and airbags compared to EUDM Jazz, they must* complain more test (IIHS, NTHS) than Europe or Japan or Australia or South America.

*this verb is not the best choice: IIHS, Euroncap, LatinNcap, ANcap, JNcap are not used for approval tests.

[Westy36]

Now it woluld be a 1 or 2 Ncap stars, for collision avoidance gubbins not standard and for body strength: now side and frontal crashes are more severe.

Do you know this or is it anecdotal? I would be interested if it is genuine.

I know crash testing moves on, but I look at the NCAP information and video for 08-15 Jazz and it looks good. I do know however that the Fiat Panda 2011 was NCAP 4 star, but in 2018 was 0 star.

In any event, the best safety device in any car is its driver. The safest car in the world wont help you if you drive like a fool. I have passed advanced driving tests and concentrate on what I am doing, so on that basis I consider my Jazz a safe place to be!   

[jazzaro]

Now it woluld be a 1 or 2 Ncap stars, for collision avoidance gubbins not standard and for body strength: now side and frontal crashes are more severe.

Do you know this or is it anecdotal? I would be interested if it is genuine.

I know crash testing moves on, but I look at the NCAP information and video for 08-15 Jazz and it looks good. I do know however that the Fiat Panda 2011 was NCAP 4 star, but in 2018 was 0 star.

In any event, the best safety device in any car is its driver. The safest car in the world wont help you if you drive like a fool. I have passed advanced driving tests and concentrate on what I am doing, so on that basis I consider my Jazz a safe place to be!   

Tested today with actual test protocols a 2012 Jazz would surely reach no more than 2 euroncap stars, to be honest 2 stars would be a very good and lucky result.
This because its chassis was not designed to pass:
-the frontal full width 50km/h crash;
-the frontal 40% overlap crash  with a soft trolley of 1400kg  standard weight;
-the side crash considering much more parameters (some of them needing a sidebag put between drive and passenger) for adults and children;
-the rear crash whiplash for rear passengers;
-and so on: euroncap datasheets are clear about this https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/47807/euroncap-2015-honda-jazz-datasheet.pdf and https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/7449/euroncap_honda_jazz_2009_5stars.pdf
We must consider that manufacturers do not design their cars to be safe or to be clean: they design them to meet  legal and commercial parameters current in a specific year and in a specific market and nothing more because it would be expensive in the assembly line. Cars for USDM markets must meet a roof strength test to protect driver and passengers from rollover damages, so cars built to be sold in the USDM have A, B and C pillars more robust than cars sold in Europe.
Here you can see rear bumper parts of a USDM 2017 Fit, https://www.hondapartsnow.com/parts-list/2018-honda-fit--5dr_ex-ka_6mt/interior_bumper/rear_bumper.html
and this is the same part chart of an european Jazz: https://www.parts-honda.uk/honda-cars/JAZZ/2017/14-EXECUTIVE/UPHOLSTERY/REAR-BUMPER/30747/B4650/5/30747
As you can see the nr° 7 beam in the USDM Fit is missing in the european Jazz, this because Euroncap never tests rear crashes, they only test  seats performance about  whiplash.
If you check other parts, you will see that the front beam of the USDM Fit will be different from EUDM Jazz, as front driver bag and sidebags: this because of the small overlap test, so we can say that USDM Fit drivers will be more protected than european ones in a crash very similar to the small overlap. No driver will probably  be weel protected in a crash with 45° angle, because no nCAP test, USA, EU, AU or latin, is moving manufacturers to well perform in this performance.
So if you see a 2012 Fiat Panda with 0 stars if tested in 2018 (and with 4 or 5 stars when tested in 2012), feel sure that every other mass production car designed in the same period will behave in the same way.
So we must say that a car will be safe only considering the specific test well performed: other fields are not considered in the design so probably the car will perform bad.