Honda Jazz locking wheelnut key

[Jo]

My car is in at my local Honda garage for a service and MOT. 

The garage phoned me earlier to say there were some extra things that needed doing to the car including the 2 rear tyres which needed replacing which I obviously agreed to.  However a short while later they rang back asking me where  the locking wheelnut key was.  I have no idea what this item even looks like, let alone where it is!  I told them I didn't know and they then said they would remove the existing nuts and replace them with standard ones and it would be £60 for labour.  I agreed to this.

Having now had time to think about it does this seem like a fair price?  Additionally, I'm now thinking are they only going to replace the nuts on the 2 rear wheels that they're changing the tyres on or are they also going to do the 2 front ones as well.  Otherwise, if, for instance I go out in the car tomorrow and get a puncture in one of the front tyres I'm going to be in exactly the same position

What would you do?

[culzean]

My car is in at my local Honda garage for a service and MOT. 

The garage phoned me earlier to say there were some extra things that needed doing to the car including the 2 rear tyres which needed replacing which I obviously agreed to.  However a short while later they rang back asking me where  the locking wheelnut key was.  I have no idea what this item even looks like, let alone where it is!  I told them I didn't know and they then said they would remove the existing nuts and replace them with standard ones and it would be £60 for labour.  I agreed to this.

Having now had time to think about it does this seem like a fair price?  Additionally, I'm now thinking are they only going to replace the nuts on the 2 rear wheels that they're changing the tyres on or are they also going to do the 2 front ones as well.  Otherwise, if, for instance I go out in the car tomorrow and get a puncture in one of the front tyres I'm going to be in exactly the same position

What would you do?

They may have done all 4 wheels, check when you get car back and if all 4 nuts on all 4 wheels have a hexagon on them,  if they have they are not locking nuts,  locking nuts are cylindrical not hexagonal.

The locking wheel nut key is a socket that fits on the end of the normal wheel wrench and has a special set of projections inside that mesh with the pattern inside the locking wheel nut to allow it to be turned,  without the key the nut just spins and does not unfasten.  There are only a certain number of keys so Honda dealer should have a full set to be able to remove the wheels for servicing brakes etc.

The key should be in the little tool pouch with jack handle, wheel wrench** with 1/2" square drive and a screwdriver,  and a spare 'non-locking' wheel nut that you can remove with a normal 19mm socket. I long ago got rid of the locking wheel nuts on our cars and replaced them with non-locking nuts.  The locking wheel nuts were a throwback to the time when alloy wheels were rare and costly,  now every car has them,  including the pedal cars kids run around in....

note** -    The supplied wheel wrench is far too puny to remove wheel nuts that have been tightened with an air impact wrench by the tyre fitters, so most people who have not bought an upgraded one will call out the AA or whoever to come and fix their puncture.

[richardfrost]

note** -    The supplied wheel wrench is far too puny to remove wheel nuts that have been tightened with an air impact wrench by the tyre fitters, so most people who have not bought an upgraded one will call out the AA or whoever to come and fix their puncture.

Or stand on the wrench arm whilst holding on to the car. It works if you are 15 stone!

[culzean]

note** -    The supplied wheel wrench is far too puny to remove wheel nuts that have been tightened with an air impact wrench by the tyre fitters, so most people who have not bought an upgraded one will call out the AA or whoever to come and fix their puncture.

Or stand on the wrench arm whilst holding on to the car. It works if you are 15 stone!

If you slip you are in a world of pain, and maybe a broken ankle - far better to get one of these 

 https://www.screwfix.com/p/rac-telescopic-wheel-wrench-17-19mm/7182r       

or a better quality one

https://www.screwfix.com/p/teng-tools-wheel-wrench-17-19mm/4008f

Use the longer length to undo stubborn nuts and the shorter length to tighten them - otherwise you can overtighten them easily - IIRC they are 110NM and a newton is ( for our purposes ) 100grams  - so 110 x 0.1 = 11Kg at the end of a 1 metre bar. 

So I think extended length is 500mm - so 22Kg ( 50 lbs ) on the handle is enough to torque up nuts - which is not really a great deal if you are leaning on it and you weigh 180+ lbs

Using the shorter length 350mm you need 31Kg on the end = 70lbs,  just about right if you lean your weight on it.

[madasafish]

note** -    The supplied wheel wrench is far too puny to remove wheel nuts that have been tightened with an air impact wrench by the tyre fitters, so most people who have not bought an upgraded one will call out the AA or whoever to come and fix their puncture.

Or stand on the wrench arm whilst holding on to the car. It works if you are 15 stone!

If you slip you are in a world of pain, and maybe a broken ankle - far better to get one of these 

 https://www.screwfix.com/p/rac-telescopic-wheel-wrench-17-19mm/7182r       

Use the longer length to undo stubborn nuts and the shorter length to tighten them - otherwise you can overtighten them easily - IIRC they are 110NM and a newton is ( for our purposes ) 100grams  - so 110 x 0.1 = 11Kg at the end of a 1 metre bar. 

So I think extended length is 500mm - so 22Kg ( 50 lbs ) on the handle is enough to torque up nuts - which is not really a great deal if you are leaning on it and you weigh 180+ lbs

Using the shorter length 350mm you need 31Kg on the end = 70lbs,  just about right if you lean your weight on it.

I have one of the above: easy to use and far better than the puny thing Honda supply.

[Westy36]

I'd second the extender wheel wrench. Have one in both cars, and they really do make life a lot easier.

[ColinS]

I told them I didn't know and they then said they would remove the existing nuts and replace them with standard ones and it would be £60 for labour.  I agreed to this.

What would you do?

I had the same issue years back on my CR-V.  At that time not even the garage could remove the nuts without the wheelnut key, which is why they keep a biscuit tin with a selection in.

I rifled through the tin until I found the one that fitted and then ordered a replacement through the dealer.

[Westy36]

which is why they keep a biscuit tin with a selection in.

I rifled through the tin until I found the one that fitted and then ordered a replacement through the dealer.
[/quote]

Handy. How did you end up with a biscuit tin full of locking wheel nut keys??

[culzean]

which is why they keep a biscuit tin with a selection in.

I rifled through the tin until I found the one that fitted and then ordered a replacement through the dealer.

Handy. How did you end up with a biscuit tin full of locking wheel nut keys??
[/quote]

I think ColinS means the garage had a biscuit tin full of wheelnut keys...

[Jocko]

Probably ones they have half-inched from customer's cars!

[Rory]

Daughter 'lost' hers - I was gobsmacked a replacement from our local Honda dealer was only £9.  Of course the other one turned up later.

Merc dealers (key looks the same design) never ask for the key as they have a master set.  I think there's only about 20 variations.

Tried to get a spare for our VW (again, key looks same) and was told VW don't sell as they're a "security item".  If the key is lost they'll replace the whole set for a mere £70.

[Westy36]

Tried to get a spare for our VW (again, key looks same) and was told VW don't sell as they're a "security item".  If the key is lost they'll replace the whole set for a mere £70.

Another text book reason to avoid VAG cars. Where does one begin? DSG boxes, timing chains, EA189 diesel gate etc etc etc. An extensive list.

[Kremmen]

DSG has been one of the most unreliable and annoying of gearboxes to drive.

They are fine out on the road when moving but try slow reversing like parallel parking or reversing into a garage with precision, almost impossible.

If they do break, normally 3 - 5 years with average usage, then that's ~£7k for a new one.

[Rory]

Tried to get a spare for our VW (again, key looks same) and was told VW don't sell as they're a "security item".  If the key is lost they'll replace the whole set for a mere £70.

Another text book reason to avoid VAG cars. Where does one begin? DSG boxes, timing chains, EA189 diesel gate etc etc etc. An extensive list.

To be fair, the reason it's unlikely we'll buy any more Hondas is the dealer is the worst of any I've ever dealt with - nothing too major, just lots of little things - and there's really no realistic alternative dealer now.

The VW Tiguan wife has doesn't have a chain, or an EA189 engine.  It does have DSG though!   If the Honda franchise had still been with the dealer we first used I'm sure she'd be driving a CR-V.  But Honda canned that dealer and the new one is poor.

[sparky Paul]

The VW Tiguan wife has doesn't have a chain, or an EA189 engine.  It does have DSG though!

Isn't the DSG an improved beast now?

You don't seem to hear so many of the horror stories that were common when the DSG gearbox first appeared. I assumed they had gotten topside of the problems.