Author Topic: Living with a Jazz Crosstar  (Read 3674 times)

madasafish

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2020, 01:42:26 PM »
I considered myself obsessive when driving a car in my early days - 50 years ago.

Now I have matured (like a good wine?    :P ), cars have matured as well..

I dislike having lots of instruments to read.. After all I bought a computer in a car to run the engine, so surely it can tell me when it is poorly...

Megansbob

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2020, 09:40:53 PM »
Hi I took delivery of a Crosstar on Friday after trading in my 2018 mk 3.  I looked the Jazz Ex and was not impressed with the alloys which looked like cheap plastic wheel trims and it would cost me £880 to change them. We road tested the Crosstar and what a diff ends from our Mk3 imo.  Delighted with it after. Long run up to and around the lakes on Sunday. It seems to absorb bumps in the road far better that ever. The enhanced sound system is fabulous. Pity they donít offer it to the ordinary Jazz.   The only difference is no heated steering wheel (no loss) and no blind spot indicator, again no big loss. So far so good. 

John Ratsey

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2020, 10:39:21 PM »
Hi I took delivery of a Crosstar on Friday after trading in my 2018 mk 3.  I looked the Jazz Ex and was not impressed with the alloys which looked like cheap plastic wheel trims and it would cost me £880 to change them. We road tested the Crosstar and what a diff ends from our Mk3 imo.   
I looked closely at the wheels on my Crosstar and think the black parts are plastic. I can't be sure without attacking a black area with a sharp object which I'm not planning to do. Nonetheless, the effect is very nice and there's less shiny metal to try to keep in good condition. Overall, the vehicle is a massive improvement on the Mk 3 Jazz while my dealer told me that the Crosstar is a bigger proportion of the Mk 4 Jazz sales than Honda had expected.

Back to the subject of engine coolant temperature, I can't explain why the Torque app isn't getting the data from my OBDII reader - the display is blank. However, I suspect that the hybrid system will shorten the winter warm-up period by giving the engine some work to do by putting some charge into the battery and avoid the slow warm-up when the engine is idling and doing no work. If the battery is already at 60% or more then the vehicle may use the battery and turn the engine off although there's the question of how the cabin will be heated (maybe that's the reason for the heated seats) or the windscreen defrosted (we might find there's an electric heating element in the heating system to provide warmth when the engine is off). So far it seems that Honda have thought through the details fairly well.

jazzaro

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2020, 11:13:43 PM »
I looked closely at the wheels on my Crosstar and think the black parts are plastic. I can't be sure without attacking a black area with a sharp object which I'm not planning to do. Nonetheless, the effect is very nice and there's less shiny metal to try to keep in good condition. Overall, the vehicle is a massive improvement on the Mk 3 Jazz while my dealer told me that the Crosstar is a bigger proportion of the Mk 4 Jazz sales than Honda had expected.
Now suv and crossover are trendy so no surprise for me...
Quote
Back to the subject of engine coolant temperature, I can't explain why the Torque app isn't getting the data from my OBDII reader - the display is blank. However, I suspect that the hybrid system will shorten the winter warm-up period by giving the engine some work to do by putting some charge into the battery and avoid the slow warm-up when the engine is idling and doing no work. If the battery is already at 60% or more then the vehicle may use the battery and turn the engine off although there's the question of how the cabin will be heated (maybe that's the reason for the heated seats) or the windscreen defrosted (we might find there's an electric heating element in the heating system to provide warmth when the engine is off). So far it seems that Honda have thought through the details fairly well.
The torque software does not read the coolant temperature because it does not know the data code, maybe it will read it after an upgrade.
About the cabin heating, it's simple: if the driver will ask heat from the climate system, the engine will be set on to provide hot coolant to the cabin heater, as it happens in every full hybrid car.

chicksee

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2020, 01:52:16 PM »
Very happy with my Crosstar, handles well and mph so far is goodish 61mpg but have only done short distances so hopefully this will increase on a decent run.
One thing that is bothering me is tyre pressures, handbook says 38/39 psi which seems quite high to me is everyone using these pressures?

jazzaro

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2020, 02:19:37 PM »

One thing that is bothering me is tyre pressures, handbook says 38/39 psi which seems quite high to me is everyone using these pressures?
Are you an engeneer or do you work in a tyre service?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 04:34:31 PM by jazzaro »

Jocko

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2020, 02:47:45 PM »
One thing that is bothering me is tyre pressures, handbook says 38/39 psi which seems quite high to me is everyone using these pressures?
Is that what it says on the door pillar? Handbook I have seen says "See label on driver's door jam".
Compared with some vehicles these pressures are quite low. Compared to the earlier Jazz models they are a smidgeon higher.
These are the pressures Honda recommends for the vehicle.

John Ratsey

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2020, 07:07:51 PM »
Is that what it says on the door pillar? Handbook I have seen says "See label on driver's door jam".

These are the pressures Honda recommends for the vehicle.
The label on my Crosstar says 35psi front, 33 psi rear.

I put some fuel in my Crosstar today. 469 miles and the fuel gauge had dropped from 4 bars (out of 10) to 3 bars about 20 miles earlier. I put it 30.5 litres which indicates 69.3mpg while the car claimed 73mpg - a 5% difference. However, this assumes that the dealer put as much fuel in the tank as I did on the refill. The next refill will be more representative.

John Ratsey

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2020, 09:46:14 PM »
Very happy with my Crosstar, handles well and mph so far is goodish 61mpg but have only done short distances so hopefully this will increase on a decent run.
By keeping an eye on the trip mpg I can see that there's the usual hit on fuel economy until the engine is warmed up. When starting from cold even on a hot day (ie yesterday) my Crosstar likes to run the engine for about a minute in fast idle when I power up the vehicle whether or not the vehicle is actually moving. Short trip fuel economy is therefore likely suffering from the cold starts although there might be enough warmth in the engine if restarting within an hour or two to avoid this behaviour.

That said, yesterday I did a 70 mile return trip with about an 8 hour gap (so there was the cold start behaviour for both legs). The route was along less good A roads with a good scattering of villages and speed restrictions. The vehicle claimed 79mpg on the outgoing leg and 80mpg on the return (dry warm weather with little wind provides optimum conditions for fuel economy). Some of the road provided situations where the Road Departure Mitigation System was complaining about my driving. I've yet to succeed in turning it off which can, according to the book, only be done on a per trip basis. My attempt to practice this while the vehicle was stopped, but with engine running, didn't work as the short cut button did nothing so I presume that it has to be turned off while the vehicle is moving so what's meant to be a safety system becomes a hazard as well as a distraction.

I travelled with the benefit of the cushion I had ordered (see a previous post) and I was much more comfortable. With the seat high I had too much weight on my thighs. The cushion, plus the seat lowered to leave me at much the same height as without the cushion, has fixed this problem. The only glitch is that the cushion is slightly too wide to sit comfortably in the depression in the seat.

Jocko

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2020, 11:11:33 PM »
Road Departure Mitigation System was complaining about my driving.
Would a slightly different driving style satisfy it?

richardfrost

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2020, 08:49:15 AM »
Hi John. Twice a year I take part in 24 hour running events. It means camping for the weekend. The only time I do that. I bought (rather than borrowed) a tent for the last one but returned it as it leaked. I spent the second night sleeping in my RAV4 front seat as best I could. The seats donít fold flat and anyway the Toyota has a massive step in the loading bay where the batteries and their vents are.

Why am I telling you this?

Well one of the intriguing things about the Crosstar is the fold flat seats. As someone just short of six foot, I am wondering if I could sleep in the Jazz or Crosstar with the seats and the front passenger seat folded flat. Does this seem feasible? I am imagining a half inflated mattress placed in the car to provide a little bit of cushioning and smooth out any gaps.

What do you think? How long is the space folded flat?

Thanks.

jazzaro

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2020, 12:06:48 PM »

By keeping an eye on the trip mpg I can see that there's the usual hit on fuel economy until the engine is warmed up. When starting from cold even on a hot day (ie yesterday) my Crosstar likes to run the engine for about a minute in fast idle when I power up the vehicle whether or not the vehicle is actually moving. Short trip fuel economy is therefore likely suffering from the cold starts although there might be enough warmth in the engine if restarting within an hour or two to avoid this behaviour.

I could read the same words in Toyota hybrid forums, so I assume this is a standard or necessary behaviour.

Jocko

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2020, 02:52:47 PM »
Would a slightly different driving style satisfy it?
I was thinking about this while travelling a well-lined country B road and I could see it being a pig for Road Departure Mitigation System. You cannot sit bang in between the lines unless you want to hit every manhole and irregularity, and you would have to drop 10 mph if you wanted to corner without the smoothing you get by coming into the kerb and going out to the centre line. Maybe manufacturers should think about having it operate at speeds above 50 mph or so because its real value is in motorways and high-speed roads where boredom can lead to lack of concentration.

culzean

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2020, 03:27:01 PM »
Lack of concentration becoming more of a problem, not helped by all this support tech, which leads to complacency which leads to lack of attention on the road....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: Living with a Jazz Crosstar
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2020, 10:50:48 PM »
Would a slightly different driving style satisfy it?
The best route along a slightly wiggly, but empty, road is to smooth out the bends (but no cutting blind corners - there might be a surprise awaiting). Anyway, the good news is that today I think I succeeded in turning this off. I was confused because the icon needed to turn it off looks like the lane keep assistance icon.

What do you think? How long is the space folded flat?
I'll investigate this aspect tomorrow although it's a feature I'm not currently planning to use.

Lack of concentration becoming more of a problem, not helped by all this support tech, which leads to complacency which leads to lack of attention on the road....
My own concern is not lack of concentration but on too many warnings becoming a distraction. That said, when I did my motorway trip I drifted a little and the Lane Departure warning system briefly work up. It's a very effective shaking of the steering wheel similar to getting a wheel onto a rumble strip.

Another trip today about 35 miles each way on a faster A road. Outbound just me and returning with a passenger. The car claimed 83mpg outbound and 74mpg on the return. While the return trip had a bit more load I think the key factor in the difference was the wind. Only about 10mph but a tail wind on the outward leg and a headwind on the rerturn which means that the aerodynamic drag losses (which are more significant on a relatively high and short vehicle with a blunt rear end) were substantially different between the two journeys. With the drag being proportional to relative wind speed squared, one leg of a 50mph journey has the drag of 40mph (40 x 40 = 1600) while the other leg has the drag of 60mph (60 x 60 = 3600) which is more than double.

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