Author Topic: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz  (Read 1921 times)

springswood

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2019, 10:29:21 AM »
So far I've only done the rubber washers on the front suspension. Bit of a reluctant DIYer.
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

Chris_Music

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2019, 10:52:37 AM »
You're going to end up with a lovely quiet Jazz that does 1mpg.

This is not too far from the truth :P
Though I haven't really noticed the MPG taking much of a hit. Though the car doesn't feel as powerful as it did before I installed it, which is a shame!

So far I've only done the rubber washers on the front suspension. Bit of a reluctant DIYer.

That's quite an impressive first step for a reluctant DIYer!!
I might take a look at that mod. Did you notice much of a difference?

Jocko

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2019, 11:27:27 AM »
Chris. What sound system do you have in the car?

springswood

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2019, 02:52:32 PM »
Thanks. Though as I posted elsewhere it was a lot easier to do than it seems. Undo two bolts, cut out some rubber, do the bolts up, not as fiddly as removing door cards etc..
It did help a lot with reducing road surface noise, especially on motorways and the like. Presumably reducing how much vibration is transmitted through the suspension and into the body. I have since found my anti roll drop links needed replacing, which reduced that noise even more. In an experimental mood I'm tempted to undo the mod, just to see what difference it makes now. On the other hand if it ain't broke...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 02:55:04 PM by springswood »
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

Chris_Music

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2019, 12:28:20 PM »
Chris. What sound system do you have in the car?

I have just the stock head unit with some Alpine SXE-1725S speakers in the 4 doors.
Speakers make a decent difference, but I don't know if it's entirely the speakers, as I did the sound insulation at the same time as the speaker upgrade, so it's probably a bit of both. But worth the upgrade at a price of 55 for 4 speakers.

Thanks. Though as I posted elsewhere it was a lot easier to do than it seems. Undo two bolts, cut out some rubber, do the bolts up, not as fiddly as removing door cards etc..
It did help a lot with reducing road surface noise, especially on motorways and the like. Presumably reducing how much vibration is transmitted through the suspension and into the body. I have since found my anti roll drop links needed replacing, which reduced that noise even more. In an experimental mood I'm tempted to undo the mod, just to see what difference it makes now. On the other hand if it ain't broke...

Awesome, did you have to jack the car up to take the weight off the suspension before undoing the bolts, or could you just undo them as they were?

I'd be interested to hear what you find if you do decide to remove the rubber.

springswood

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2019, 12:41:47 PM »
No jacking required, it's just the nuts  at the top inside the bonnet.

I'll do the experiment and let you know.
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

Chris_Music

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2019, 12:26:14 PM »
Sound Deadening Part 6: Main Interior Closed Cell Foam and Mass Loaded Vinyl

So It's been nearly a month since my last update, and most of that has been me doing research and getting all the materials needed for the next stage of sound proofing.

This stage has been one of the most painstaking ones, not just because I had to remove the whole interior again (twice), but also because of getting things to fit back afterwards.

This build really isn't for the faint hearted, and part of me is regretting even starting this build! But I've come this far, and it's all about learning and trying new things.

So first step was to completely remove the interior (again), and cover the floor/boot in Closed Cell Foam.

I wanted to try and get as close to 100% coverage as possible.

So I removed the hand brake and placed a sheet underneath and cut out the holes for the screws, paying special attention that the main handbrake surround was still touching bare metal (for the grounding):


I was hoping to fit the Closed Cell Foam and the Mass Loaded Vinyl both in one day, but as per usual, I underestimated how long things take! So I managed to get all the Closed Cell Foam done in a day, and had to put the interior back in (just the Carpet, centre console and seats), as I had work the next day and needed to drive the car:





I used Gorilla Tape to tape up the gaps in the CCF.

So fitting the MLV took a total of 1 and a half days to do. I did the main interior on Saturday, and finished the boot area yesterday. This was such a pain in the arse, and made me want to give up the whole project because of how annoying the whole process was. None the less, I managed to get it done.

I used a sheet of Dodo Barrier MLV 1.25m x 2.05m for the main interior, and I purchased a 5m x 1m sheet of slightly thinner MLV from Car Insulation UK to do the rest of the interior (and possibly other areas depending on how much was left over). Total weight was about 26kg

I wanted to cover as much as possible, as MLV works best with total coverage, and I noticed that there was a nice big gap where sound could come in under the gear linkage. So I followed the service manual very carefully and removed the gear linkage:


Then applied some Closed Cell Foam:


And finally a layer of MLV, and fitted everything back:


Next step was to do the same with the Hand Brake. I wanted to make sure everything was easy to access if it needed to be adjusted in the future:


I wanted to put sound proofing over the cover for the fuel pump, as sound could get through that way, but I didnt want to cover it with CCF then MLV and for it to then be hard to access when the eventual time comes to replace the fuel pump/fuel filter. So I cut out a square of CCF and a square of MLV to cover it, and then stuck the CCF to the MLV, and then placed it on top, so when the fuel pump/fuel filter eventually needs replacing, the sound proofing can be easily removed for access:



The MLV was a nightmare to fit, as it doesn't stretch, and isn't self adhesive. So I had to make lots of cuts to get it to wrap around the contours of the interior:






I tried to get the MLV as high up the firewall as possible, but it was a nightmare to work with, had to settle at this height:



After running out of the Dodo MLV, I switched to the other MLV, which was so much easier to work with, due to being thinner. Did the rear seat area first, then put the interior back in:




There was a noticeable gap on the air ducts, so I taped them up just to be safe:


I fitted the side plastics first, and I'm glad I did, as they wouldn't go back at all, I ended up having to lift up the carpet and remove a large strip of the CCF to have enough room for the plastics to fit back. I wish I had used a thinner CCF, something like 5mm or 3mm to do the interior in hindsight:


After removing some of the CCF, the plastics did eventually fit back on, but there are still some noticeable gaps that I will just have to live with. They aren't too bad, but they are just annoying because everything doesn't look flush and perfect:



Side plastics and centre console all fitted in. Centre console was difficult to fit back in, but I got there:



Next was the boot area. I may have rushed this area a bit, as I was pretty annoyed by this point and just wanted it over with, so I may go back and tidy it up a bit at a later date, but it seems to fit ok for now:





I used all the off cuts of MLV and some of the stock Honda sound insulation that I had removed from the Door cards and rear plastics to stuff the void gaps above the rear wheel well:



So at present everything fits back in "ok".

I am having an issue with the rear seats at the moment.
I couldnt fit the base plate that the rear seats lock into on the floor, so I had to completely remove all the sound deadening around that for it to sit flush again. But now the rear seats don't lock into place when you put the seat part down (in normal position). I think this is due to the carpet being slightly raised from the CCF and MLV underneath.
I don't know if this is an MOT fail or not, but my MOT is due in less than a month, so I don't want to risk it, and I'd feel safer in the knowledge that it locks down like it is suppose to, so I'm going to investigate this issue tomorrow and see if I can fix it.


Initial thoughts after installing the CCF and MLV in the interior:

So, driving it for the first time, I noticed when the car is stationary and driving at very low speeds (up to 10mph), the car is near silent, like luxury car silent. But then the moment you get above 10mph, then the road noise just comes straight through. It is slightly more muffled, but still really noticeably loud.

I put this down to the tyres. It has Bridgestone Turanza ER370 tyres on it, and they are the standard tyres it came with from the factory. The front ones are nearing their limit, so I would imagine they have gotten louder over time, and are at their loudest now they are nearing the end of their life. I am looking at replacing them with some Yokohama BluEarth ES32's, which seem like a good all round tyre, and have a noise rating of 68db. But I'm not going to do that until the tyres actually need replacing.

There is still a lot of engine noise and I have a few tricks up my sleeve that I'm going to try (Mostly a complete bonnet liner (20mm insulation) and putting some MLV on the fire wall under the cowl), but I'm not going to get my hopes up. We shall see.

I also notice that now I have basically eliminated all the places where noise can come through, there is noticeable noise coming through the windows (like when other cars drive past). This is something I think I'm just going to have to accept I cannot fix (bar thicker glass).

I am also going to go down the door seal route, and see if that makes a difference.

I think when I'm done, I'm going to go down to my local Honda Dealer and ask to test drive another Jazz Si so I can actually see the difference for myself. As I have done all this gradually, so I'm not going to notice that huge difference I would have if I had done it all at once.

I did get the chance to drive my Landlady's New(ish) Mini Cooper not long ago, and one of the things I noticed straight away (apart from how poor the visibility was), was how loud the interior was, so if that's anything to go by, the sound deadening seems to have worked well.

More Updates to follow soon, and I will conclude this thread with all my research, products purchased, and the Do's and Don't's that I have learned along the way, so please bare with me.

Thanks :)

SuperCNJ

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2019, 04:45:24 PM »
Just out of interest, of all the sound deadening that you have done, what would you say made the most difference?

I don't think I would have the inclination or ability to do as much as you have. But I could do a few bits if it makes a noticeable difference.

Chris_Music

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2019, 09:05:47 AM »
Just out of interest, of all the sound deadening that you have done, what would you say made the most difference?

I don't think I would have the inclination or ability to do as much as you have. But I could do a few bits if it makes a noticeable difference.

Hmmm, this is a tough question to answer, As i did everything in small stages.

But if I'm honest, the thing that made the most difference was the layer of Mass Loaded Vinyl on the interior floor. It's probably not what you wanted to hear, but that definitely made the most difference. But that was coupled with a layer of CLD (Constrained-layer damping) Tiles, with Closed Cell foam in between.

I'd also say doing the doors made a noticeable difference as well. So did the roof.

I haven't tried the rubber ring on the front suspension yet: http://www.hondafitjazz.com/ring.html, but this is something I will be doing soon that's meant to be easy and make a noticeable difference.

I also installed 20mm thick hood insulation, which did make a noticeable difference to engine noise.
As well as installing insulation behind the fire wall.

Probably the easiest thing to do to make your car quiet is tyres, Like Yokohama BluEarth or Continental Tyres.

Any other questions feel free to ask :)!

Chris_Music

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2019, 09:48:34 AM »
Sound Deadening Part 7: Under Bonnet insulation

After reading on an American Honda Fit forum about a member getting noticeably quieter engine noise from installing a dynamat hoodliner, I looked into an equivalent product to buy in the UK. The hoodliner is basically 20mm thick Closed Cell Foam with a reflective surface for heat resistance.

So I bought some 1x1m 20mm thick Thermal Acoustic Foam Insulation from carinsulation.co.uk for 22.

My plan was to cover the entire underside of the bonnet.
I had some large sheets of white paper which I used for photo studio background, so I used that to make an outline of the bonnet to make a template:



I then cut that out and used it underneath to draw out the final template.

Something I didn't take into account was the closing of the bonnet, and the gap at the front for air flow. So I ended up having to make a much smaller template than I originally planned:




I cut out the template and drew around it on the foam sheet:



I decided not to keep the holes, as I didnt think the clips would be able to fit with the 20mm foam anyway:


I ended up having to trim a bit more off in order to it to fit better under the bonnet:


To clean up the rough foam edges, I used some aluminium tape, which I thought made it look more professional and factory fitted, rather than aftermarket:



And finally to the install. I decided to leave the small amount of sound insulation I had originally put there:



I wanted to keep the factory sound insulation, as I felt like the combination of the two made much more of a difference:

I used double sided foam tape to secure the bottom two clips, which seems to have done the job nicely.

I had to ditch the air duct that was on the other side, as it was hard to get it to fit back with the new sound deadening, but I don't really know exactly how much difference that was really making, I haven't noticed any difference not having it on.


The under bonnet sound deadening definitely made a noticeable difference to the engine noise, and it is much quieter.
As I have so much 20mm foam left, I'm going to try and fit the rest behind the engine on the firewall at some point. But this stuff is much harder to work with due to it's thickness!

I've received the last of the new door seals in the post, so I will be doing those soon as well!

More updates to follow!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 09:51:09 AM by Chris_Music »

jazztragic

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2019, 02:29:58 PM »
What an impressive undertaking  :o

I did this few months ago perhaps 1/3 of your effort. Basically lining doors, floor, sides, boot, rear door with Butyl deadener and some random cotton lining.

It worked very well. If you do a knock test on stock Jazz door for example it rings like a bell. A simple 30x30cm butyl completely deadens it.

I am waiting for delivery of my second jazz and might take a vid comparison.

I don't think you can eliminate all the noise due to large glass and proximity to the road. My Landcruiser while well-damped is not as well as my damped Jazz, yet it is quieter. Remember that sound loss is -6db per double distance. So it is easier to loose noise by distance (eg. wheel to driver seat)

olduser1

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Re: Sound Deadening Project - Silencing the Jazz
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2019, 06:36:09 PM »
Great write up and helpful photo of the job.
I agree the choice of tyre & wheel size makes a huge difference on road noise in most cars.

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