Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Bristol_Crosstar on May 14, 2023, 03:12:04 PM
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Driving my Crosstar to Cornwall on a beautiful day realised the aircon was not producing cold air. I had this happen about 20 years ago on a Rover 45, the solution was to get it re-pressurised. I haven't been using the car much and also I tend to have Eco switched on which affects the aircon so it's just not been used enough I guess. Never had an issue on my Mk 2 in 6 years but there wasn't an Eco switch on that.
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I haven't been using the car much ...
If you've not used it much, or if you habitually have the a/c switched off (eg during the winter) when you do drive it, then it's possible for one or more of the seals to dry out and all the refrigerant leaks away. You need to get the seals replaced before the system is recharged, or you'll simply lose all the new refrigerant as well.
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...I use the car pretty much every day and never switch the 'aircon' off.
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...I use the car pretty much every day and never switch the 'aircon' off.
I usually have it on auto so the car decides whether Aircon is required, often in winter it's not.
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...I use the car pretty much every day and never switch the 'aircon' off.
I usually have it on auto so the car decides whether Aircon is required, often in winter it's not.
...Aren't you 'conditioning' the air regardless of the temp?
I choose the temp setting not the car and may still want a cooler setting even in winter. What the system is actually doing to get me that temp I don't know. I do know that your system will last longer of you use all year around.
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...I use the car pretty much every day and never switch the 'aircon' off.
I usually have it on auto so the car decides whether Aircon is required, often in winter it's not.
...Aren't you 'conditioning' the air regardless of the temp?
I choose the temp setting not the car and may still want a cooler setting even in winter. What the system is actually doing to get me that temp I don't know. I do know that your system will last longer of you use all year around.
The car won't necessarily use aircon unless required as it uses more energy than heating, if you control the climate system manually you can switch aircon on or off.
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... Exactly. Keep it on though.
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...I use the car pretty much every day and never switch the 'aircon' off.
I usually have it on auto so the car decides whether Aircon is required, often in winter it's not.
In winter you don't need the cooling side but it still dries the cabin air which helps stop interior moisture that quite a few post about.
24x7 on Auto for me as well
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It's not for everyone though having the climate system on constantly apart from the fact you'll use more petrol some people (my wife for example) prefer to have a window open and get 'fresh air' in certain weather conditions so it's a bit pointless having it on then.
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Yes, that's one reason we have opening windows.
For me I prefer the pollen filtered air. I don't even know if my windows work, never used them :)
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Yes, that's one reason we have opening windows.
For me I prefer the pollen filtered air. I don't even know if my windows work, never used them :)
If you can see through them, they work.
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My wife also likes real fresh air from an open window, tweeting birds etc. Windows open uses more fuel due to increased wind resistance. Windows shut with aircon uses more fuel for the aircon. IIRC the fuel penalty for each is about the same and balances out. Most economical is windows closed, no aircon.
Having aircon switched off all the time can lead to early gas leaks from dried out seals. Its best to run aircon now and again even in winter. I would think the reduced aircon output in econ mode would be enough use, as long as aircon is not always off completely.
Is premature gas leak is covered by warranty?. It may be regarded as a consumable/fair wear and tear.
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Air conditioning is a fairly constant load, while open windows (and the additional drag) increases with speed. So when driving around town, windows open can be more economical, while at the motorway air conditioning will be more economical.
Air conditioning will also use cooling and reheating in case of high humidity (condensation will occur within the system, drier air will be sent to the passenger space). So the air conditioning might be on more then you expect, using a bit more fuel.
That said: after 1 or 2 years it should be covered under warranty.
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I think my problem has been caused by having Eco on all the time, a/c use is minimal to save fuel in this mode.
On my wife's EV if a/c is switched on the range immediately reduces by 20 miles or so and we've got into the habit of only using it sparingly.
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I think my problem has been caused by having Eco on all the time,
I wonder... Almost 2 years in "Econ" mode (yes, always...) and the system on "Auto". The air conditioning (still?) works fine. Honda would probably have a warning in the manual if "Econ" endangered the life span of that air conditioner.
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If you switch the climate system on when it's hot outside then press Eco you'll notice the difference, the fan slows right down. If you have Eco on all the time and use the car most days not a problem but for various reasons I've not been able to use it much so having Eco on has made things worse.
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If you switch the climate system on when it's hot outside then press Eco you'll notice the difference, the fan slows right down. If you have Eco on all the time and use the car most days not a problem but for various reasons I've not been able to use it much so having Eco on has made things worse.
Indeed... the fan slows down... The amount of cold air from the vents decreases somewhat, but the aircon is still working albeit at a lower level.
This is what the manual says on page 233: "When ECON mode is active, the climate control system may have reduced cooling performance."
Reduced cooling performance does NOT mean that it does not cool at all. It does! At a lower level, but it works.
An air conditioner really doesn't have to work at full power to stay "healthy", working at a lower level is really enough. As long as the refrigerant moves through the system it's working.
So it seems to me very unlikely that the Econ mode caused the problem here...
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I looked at an August 2020 EX with 40000 miles on the clock for £18299 locally. The car was in good condition but two things put me off. It had rubbish budget tyres all round and the alloys were scuffed. It had been serviced on the dot but not by Honda (it was a local Seat dealer - the owner apparently worked there).
The air con did not work at all. Just standard ambient temperature air. Apparently the latest gas R1234YF is more prone to leaking past seals, so much so that it can be considered a service item. It is also much pricier. A regas from ATS costs £62 for R134a but £125 for the newer gas. Keep those seals lubricated.
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An update on this, I had my car serviced today with the a/c issue being looked at. It turns out to be a leaking condenser which will need replacing, fortunately my car is (just) still under warranty so it should be covered (subject to Honda approval), otherwise it will cost around £900 to fix.
The dealership had another Mk4 (2 years old) in the week before with the same problem, so they're beginning to think there might have been a dodgy batch of condensers with a manufacturing fault. My car has only done 9,000 miles so it shouldn't have happened. They said it was not caused by the system being under-used, so if you get similar issues make sure you get the car checked before the warranty expires.
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...I use the car pretty much every day and never switch the 'aircon' off.
I usually have it on auto so the car decides whether Aircon is required, often in winter it's not.
yes thats what I do.
plasma
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I walked past a car wash the other day. Staff were blasting straight into the grill area a car with a power washer, a sure fire way of flattening the delicate cooling fins on a car radiator or a/c condenser. It wouldnt necessarily leak, but would certainly reduce efficiency.
Damage caused in this way wouldnt be covered by warranty.
If it happens to you,and you have no one to claim against , it may be possible to painstakingly straighten out the fins manually with a pair of tweezers or something similar. I have done it in the past over small areas of damage. Depends if you are time rich or cash rich.
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From what I've read, the 10G Civic condenser isn't protected very well from front stone damage and quite a few have failed.
Maybe that might cause a leak.
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The dealer said people with gravel drives often have problems with the condenser being damaged from flying stones but they checked mine and said it wasn't that kind of damage, looked more like a fault with the unit
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At my first service with a 2020 Crosstar, two years ago, the garage picked up a small leak in the air con condenser which I had not been aware about. The air con was working fine but they noticed some staining in the condenser - not caused from stone damage but from a manufacturing fault. They had not at that time had the problem with this model Jazz before but said there had been some similar problems with Civics in the past.
They naturally changed it under warranty. It is probably worth people with the current Jazz having theirs checked at service - however, perhaps it was a problem just with with an early batch.
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The Aircon condenser on my 2020 Jazz SR was also replaced under warranty at just over 5000 just before the 3 year warranty ran out.
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I always have air-conditioning on and eco on.today we were out in the car and the car was cooled down to 21C. It did switch to recycle for a while.
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The aircon in my four-year-old Jazz Crosstar has stopped working. I took it to the dealer for its annual service and they said the condenser pipe had leaked and needed replacing at a cost of nearly a grand.
After I had come around from the shock, they conceded my vehicle hadn’t been the first to have this problem and said they would ask Honda if they could authorise a “goodwill repair” since my warranty had expired.
I received a call today from the garage and was told that Honda had now extended its vehicle warranties to cover this fault, so it sounds like there is indeed a problem with this part.
Hugely relieved!
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I have had mine set to eco and auto from the start when i got the car. 4 year's it is still working. I may having recharged this service ascit replaces the oil in the gas. 27k miles and still geting 66.7 mpg. Very happy.
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The aircon in my four-year-old Jazz Crosstar has stopped working. I took it to the dealer for its annual service and they said the condenser pipe had leaked and needed replacing at a cost of nearly a grand.
After I had come around from the shock, they conceded my vehicle hadn’t been the first to have this problem and said they would ask Honda if they could authorise a “goodwill repair” since my warranty had expired.
I received a call today from the garage and was told that Honda had now extended its vehicle warranties to cover this fault, so it sounds like there is indeed a problem with this part.
Hugely relieved!
Another one to watch :o
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My leaking condenser was spotted during the brake servo recall fix . It’s going back next week to be fixed, replaced under warranty.
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I sometimes see people referring to having their gas topped up. If the gas is low, there is a leak. (Aircon gas going into the atmosphere is bad.) Topping up is not the answer. The leak need to be addressed before the top up.
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I sometimes see people referring to having their gas topped up. If the gas is low, there is a leak. (Aircon gas going into the atmosphere is bad.) Topping up is not the answer. The leak need to be addressed before the top up.
I think there is a slow rate of leakage through rubber seals etc that is considered normal and inevitable. But its slow , maybe less than 5 % pressure loss per year and might need topping up after say 10 years. In this case a top up is acceptable but I believe air con experts have a legal obligation to find and fix leaks if leakage becomes too excessive,not just top it up. Even if that's what the owner wants. I dont know when leakage becomes excessive but I think if it needs topping up every year it needs fixing.
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The aircon in my four-year-old Jazz Crosstar has stopped working. I took it to the dealer for its annual service and they said the condenser pipe had leaked and needed replacing at a cost of nearly a grand.
After I had come around from the shock, they conceded my vehicle hadn’t been the first to have this problem and said they would ask Honda if they could authorise a “goodwill repair” since my warranty had expired.
I received a call today from the garage and was told that Honda had now extended its vehicle warranties to cover this fault, so it sounds like there is indeed a problem with this part.
Hugely relieved!
what it costs nearly £1000 for a condensor replacement, sounds like a bit much to me
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The aircon in my four-year-old Jazz Crosstar has stopped working. I took it to the dealer for its annual service and they said the condenser pipe had leaked and needed replacing at a cost of nearly a grand.
After I had come around from the shock, they conceded my vehicle hadn’t been the first to have this problem and said they would ask Honda if they could authorise a “goodwill repair” since my warranty had expired.
I received a call today from the garage and was told that Honda had now extended its vehicle warranties to cover this fault, so it sounds like there is indeed a problem with this part.
Hugely relieved!
what it costs nearly £1000 for a condensor replacement, sounds like a bit much to me did they mean a new compressor ?
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On my first Prius I had to have the condenser replaced. My Toyota dealer originally quoted £500+ but they phoned Toyota and got me a deal at roughly £200
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On my first Prius I had to have the condenser replaced. My Toyota dealer originally quoted £500+ but they phoned Toyota and got me a deal at roughly £200
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thanks for your reply, my condenser is still working its just the fins have been worn away with motorway debris and i have gaps in the fins now and as i am out of warranty around the £500 mark seems ok if it includes a re-gas, labour and vat
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thanks for your reply, my condenser is still working its just the fins have been worn away with motorway debris and i have gaps in the fins now and as i am out of warranty around the £500 mark seems ok if it includes a re-gas, labour and vat
Is that £500 by a Honda dealer? If so I think that’s pretty good as it’s not a five minute job
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thanks for your reply, my condenser is still working its just the fins have been worn away with motorway debris and i have gaps in the fins now and as i am out of warranty around the £500 mark seems ok if it includes a re-gas, labour and vat
Is that £500 by a Honda dealer? If so I think that’s pretty good as it’s not a five minute job
when i go to book my service next week i will ask how much they charge hopefully around the £500 mark, it seems like a quick job once they take the bumper off you just unbolt the condenser and regas
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i went into honda to book my service and fuel pump recal and i also asked about the a/c condenser, i was a little shocked as he said £1050 fitted and the part itself is out of stock till october
i am going to leave it for now and get it done at a local garage if or when it fails
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An update on this, I had my car serviced today with the a/c issue being looked at. It turns out to be a leaking condenser which will need replacing, fortunately my car is (just) still under warranty so it should be covered (subject to Honda approval), otherwise it will cost around £900 to fix.
The dealership had another Mk4 (2 years old) in the week before with the same problem, so they're beginning to think there might have been a dodgy batch of condensers with a manufacturing fault. My car has only done 9,000 miles so it shouldn't have happened. They said it was not caused by the system being under-used, so if you get similar issues make sure you get the car checked before the warranty expires.
My 2020 Jazz SR with 22,000 miles, aircon permanently on, has just been diagnosed withe leaky AC condenser.
Fortunately a warranty claim has been made by Waylands Honda with 2 days left to run on the 5 year Honda extended Warranty. I am waiting for a workshop appointment. Nevertheless losing the jazz for a day is going to be inconvenient.
Just had the fuel pump recall carried out.
This AC condenser defect does seem to be a common fault with the Mk4 Jazz.
As well as brake feel simulator failures. Big hassle, long saga.
The list of defects is getting longer. What happened to the bulletproof reputation that the older Jazz had?
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Just had my front seat bolsters replaced on our 21 EX as a Honda" Goodwill Gesture" (an update to report on the Front Seat Splitting Subject will appear elsewhere in the forum!) and the Technician reported that the Air-Con condenser has a slight leak.
According to the dealer there is a range of affected VIN numbers which may suffer this failure and fortunately my VIN number falls in the range so will be replaced under 'extended warranty/Goodwill. This doesn't flag up on the usual Honda online Recall Checker using your VIN: the dealer has to check directly with Honda. The condenser will be replaced on 19 March FOC.
I noticed that the part number on the report was 80100-TZB-JO1 and t rocks in at a price of £632.34 with a few hours labour on top it would probably be a total of £900 - £1000!
If anybody knows what the exact problem is or what the Technical Service Bulletin number is then please let us know. (Suspect it may be a newer type of refrigerant
So it looks like I may have the full house on "Product Updates" (aka recalls or inspections) .......Sat Nav voice guidance software bug issues, brake simulator replacement, front camera, and the front seat base covers replacement.
What has annoyed me the most is having to fight with Honda HME EU-UK to get some things done when the car is past its 3-year warranty.
Thankfully this Air Con problem isn't one of them!
That said, we still want to keep this car going as long aspossible as I'm struugling to find anything better in the price range and sector
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Somewhere in the handbook, after you've read the first hundred pages covering, 'elf n' safety, it should advise you to run the air/con for at least half an hour a week all year round, it stops the joints from drying out and leaking.
My previous car was a CRV, which I'd bought new 20 years before. When I sold it last March, everything still worked including the air/con which had never needed re-gassing, as I'd done what it said in the handbook.
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I haven't read the whole thread but there is a known issue with some AC condensers on the Jazz.
If your car is in the affected model/year/VIN range then Honda will replace the part.
Our issue is we refilled the gas and a year later it's gone! We then found out the condenser was split and leaking gas.
Hope that helps
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The "leaking condenser" was replaced on our '21 plate Jazz EX today as a 'Warranty Claim' completely free of charge which is ggod news, so fair play to Honda HME-EU at last in this particular instance.
I'd suggest that it's definitelyworth asking the dealer to establish if your VIN falls in the range of affected units but beware of any potential diagnostic charges if the car is not being serviced when making the request!?
Mine was picked up as leaking on the final service of the 5 year service plan as part of the "Health Check" (I think they use a special detector to sniff out the refridgerant).
Best dealt with sooner rather than later just in case Honda put a time limit on it or change their mind!