Having had a closer look I'm not surprised.
Where that bit of leather/PVC or whatever touches the side plastic, the plastic is a semi-sharp solid edge.
Not the best of designs.
I suspect the 'robots' sit in the middle of the seat base, not sliding in and across from the side?
I not think that removing that plastic will help, my driver seat upholstery cracked exactly in middle of that artificial leatherDoes look strange. Could it be cuts from a metal watch strap or charm bracelet whilst adjusting seat height?
(https://i.ibb.co/RT84KMd/353494-D7-7-EC2-400-E-B06-B-43193234-A2-BF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CKLsyXD)
It’s looking like cracks same shape.
I not think that removing that plastic will help, my driver seat upholstery cracked exactly in middle of that artificial leatherLet me know how you get on with dealer warranty claim. I’m awaiting response from Honda, so will update forum with outcome.
(https://i.ibb.co/RT84KMd/353494-D7-7-EC2-400-E-B06-B-43193234-A2-BF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CKLsyXD)
It’s looking like cracks same shape.
I wonder if this would invalidate the warranty :
https://www.autoglym.com/leather-cleaner-balm
More to the point, would it help ?
or
Are those side panels vinyl, in which case normal baby oil would be best.
It's on my list to check later.Nope
If you press leather with a finger, it produces spider like creases whereas vinyl doesn't.
Depending on that test it's either leather balm or baby oil on the shopping list.
Thinking again about @Roman issue, could that be a jacket with an unfastened zip that's dropped between the seat and closed door, or something along those lines as it doesn't look like natural crack/rip
Another one from Japan
This time it`s honda FIT 2020 e:HEV (Jazz MK4)
https://bbs.kakaku.com/bbs/K0001231286/SortID=23975834/ (https://bbs.kakaku.com/bbs/K0001231286/SortID=23975834/)
Driver used car half year
picture somewere in middle of page
https://bbs.kakaku.com/bbs/K0001231286/SortID=23975834/ImageID=3510675/ (https://bbs.kakaku.com/bbs/K0001231286/SortID=23975834/ImageID=3510675/)
And in Japan dealers replacing seat covers
Translate page with google there many reports on this thread.
For what it’s worth, checked my Crosstar seat and all ok. Presumably the “water repellent “ upholstery does not (so far!) have the same problem as the EX.The fabric covering my Crosstar's seats includes the sides.
The diagonal cracking in the pictures looks to me more like a shear stress failure rather than abrasion on a sharp edge. This might happen if the occupant "shuffles" backwards and forwards on top of the seat whilst the lower edge of the seat sides is restrained. That's a perfectly natural thing for the driver to do, so the seat ought to be designed to cope with it. Either the design is wrong (material too stiff, maybe?) or its not been manufactured correctly.
Regarding the use of conditioner, these products are generally intended to help keep the surface clean. Faux leather is plastic so the conditioner won't soak in to keep the material supple in the way it would with real leather.
...What's the consensus on the EX steering wheel, leather or not?I think all the ‘leather’ is plastic.
General cleaning product or leather cleaner/protective cream?
Thanks
Don't know what popped into my head but I wondered if the heater was drying out the plastic, pvc, faux-leather, whatever, and making it brittle.
I adjusted my bonnet catch, now closes more easily and still shuts flush.
No other car manufacturer has such poor quality.
To sportse
Try to close boot when one of doors opened,
I expiriensed boot closing problems before with Suzuki Vitara, when you try to close boot agresively the air not escaping from cabin throught boot valves efectively, and boot not closing.
It's a strange design - you can't push the bonnet down to lock as it will bend, so the official workshop method of closing it showed to me by the workshop manager is to lift it high and throw it down!
That realy weird, to close bonnet on my Jazz i lifting it 10-20cm from locked position and relese it.
Didn't meet any of this 'loads of silly problems'... even the bonnet and tailgate close 'normal'. Maybe our dealer did before delivery what Kremmen did himself?
There are lots of people in the UK finding very poor pre-delivery inspections sadly - looks like you have better dealers there.
Thanks, the problem with the boot is if I close it slowly it doesn't latch. The only way to get it to shut is to slam it.
Unless someone has a door open, then it shuts normally. Maybe there are faulty valves in the car?
Same for the tailgate - any attempt to close it normally results in it only half locking if the other doors are shut.
To get it to lock you have to do a similar procedure of lifting it high and throwing it down... with another big bang.
Thanks, the problem with the boot is if I close it slowly it doesn't latch. The only way to get it to shut is to slam it.
Unless someone has a door open, then it shuts normally. Maybe there are faulty valves in the car?
Same for the tailgate - any attempt to close it normally results in it only half locking if the other doors are shut.
To get it to lock you have to do a similar procedure of lifting it high and throwing it down... with another big bang.Thanks, the problem with the boot is if I close it slowly it doesn't latch. The only way to get it to shut is to slam it.
Unless someone has a door open, then it shuts normally. Maybe there are faulty valves in the car?
Page 180 of my, but also your manual:
To close the tailgate, grab the inner handle,
pull the tailgate down and push it closed
from outside.
So don't try to throw it closed.
Damn this should be printed on first page ;)Same for the tailgate - any attempt to close it normally results in it only half locking if the other doors are shut.
To get it to lock you have to do a similar procedure of lifting it high and throwing it down... with another big bang.Thanks, the problem with the boot is if I close it slowly it doesn't latch. The only way to get it to shut is to slam it.
Unless someone has a door open, then it shuts normally. Maybe there are faulty valves in the car?
Page 180 of my, but also your manual:
To close the tailgate, grab the inner handle,
pull the tailgate down and push it closed
from outside.
So don't try to throw it closed.
Honda do seem to have dropped the ball with the Mk4 Jazz.
Loads of silly problems that shouldn’t happen to a manufacturer that has been in business many years.
Basic things like seat material, etc.
On mine, the boot catch and bonnet catch require slamming. I’ve complained to several dealers and they say that’s how Honda designed them!
No other car manufacturer has such poor quality.
Maybe to a tiny extent excusable if you were a brand new manufacturer with a cutting edge car that no one else had… but not for a mainstream manufacturer.
It seems you have a different Jazz than most here.I seem to think so:
Maybe I have a Friday afternoon car?
...I adjusted the bonnet catch as per Kremmen's post. Need to look at it again though as it's still a bit of a high drop but much better than before.
I had the 'boot strap' fitted at time of purchase and don't have a problem when closing the boot.
It's easier to 'swing' it down to close it and sometimes a helping hand is required just before the latch connects but nothing close to a slam!
Hi, later I will also go and check my seat, although I would be surprised to see it damaged, I have so few kilometers on the car that I do not expect to find any damage,I sure if you driving alone only your side will be affected, i almost all time drive alone. No passenger sitting on front passenger seat every day.
but what happens only on the driver's seat (and therefore would suggest the wear of the seat) or also on that of the passenger (and therefore would suggest poor quality of the material)?
(Sorry for the mistakes I used Google translate)
You don't have to do anything. Your Elegance has no "leather" parts in the seats at all, so the problem does not exist for you. ;)There we in same boat :P
Hi Guys, I have a Jazz EX hybrid, 2021 reg, bought it from Holdcroft Honda about 6 months ago with 5600 on the clock,about a month ago I was cleaning the inside and noticed a series of rips/ delaminating of the drivers seat edge exactly as in the previous photos!, I’m not heavy, I’m 66 yrs of age so don’t rag it,don’t own a cat, We worked it out ,we’ve owned approximately 18/20 vehicles in that time and never ever owned one with such a badly damaged seat!! Took it back to Holdcroft who took photos and made a report and sent it Honda Warranty dept, after a few weeks they rung me today to say they think it’s wear and tear!! Really,get a grip, if this isn’t acknowledged and repaired/ replaced under warranty I’ll lose thousands when I come to change the car, never owned a Honda before and I can see this being the last, if this is how they treat customers who only 6 x months ago gave them £21000There is lots of evidence on line ,internationally ,that this is a problem, and that Honda is rectifying it under warranty. Or they are in some countries. This thread has become a bit bloated with other issues, so I am not sure anyone has yet made a successful warranty claim in the UK. But the fact remains ,if Honda have accepted liability in one country how can they with honour claim its fair wear and tear in another?.
Also ,as a last resort ,there may be protection under consumer law , for goods not fit for purpose. Companies certainly dont like receiving court papers or being sued,or having to employ lawyers. . Citizens advice bureau or Local Trading standards may be able to advise.I wouldn't leave that until last. A polite letter to Holcroft Honda reminding them of the "fitness for purpose" requirement of consumer law puts the onus on them to continue to argue with Honda (a comment mentioning that a search of the internet reveals that this problem has occurred elsewhere may be appropriate). Pretend leather sides to car seats should not crack up in a year, or even 10 years, if the material used is suitable for the usage. And for those where the cracking starts after the warranty period ends, if the material is inherently suitable then there's the latent defect provision.
No mine is fine. Checked the area and the upholstery is fine. Felt around a bit and there appears to be a groove in the foam behind the outer material. I think this gives it more flexibility
My driver’s side seat squab leatherette side has cracked, exposing the white inner material. The cracking appears to correspond to the area that creases when compressed.
Car is only 1 year old but 24k miles. I’m not a heavy or large person, no physical abrasion as on outer edge of seat, no cleaning products used and never experienced this issue with my previous cars at later age and higher mileage.
Has anyone else the same issue? Dealer have taken photos and contacting Honda, so await outcome.
Just checked my Jazz SR, thinking surely my seat is fine as I’m so careful getting in and out, and shocked to see it cracking in the same place. I literally put no pressure on the side getting in and out and am so careful to keep the car pristine. I can’t believe this. :-[I have the same problem, like you I polish with "leather cleaner", & noted it last week cracks, took the car back to Honda Vertu Boston who are going to replace the drivers seat
I'm from Italy and I have the 8 year warranty too.
I had no issues in having the seat cushion replaced, I just went to the dealer, have them looking the seat, and then they got the ok from Honda in 1 day.
The seat arrived a couple of weeks later, I left the car for one day to have it replaced.
So far everything looks even better after 1 year.
My driver’s side seat squab leatherette side has cracked, exposing the white inner material. The cracking appears to correspond to the area that creases when compressed.
Car is only 1 year old but 24k miles. I’m not a heavy or large person, no physical abrasion as on outer edge of seat, no cleaning products used and never experienced this issue with my previous cars at later age and higher mileage.
Has anyone else the same issue? Dealer have taken photos and contacting Honda, so await outcome.
I've found that the most severe wear of the driver's seat in any car I've had, has been on the door side of the edge of the back rest. As you get in, you can brush against think
however I have noticed the stitching is coming apart on the joint at the rear of the drivers side bolster approx 5mm so I have stitched it back together, needle and black cotton, hope it doesn't get worse, not good on a 4 month old car with only 1600 miles on the clock
Sorry for the late reply, the dealer is 45mins away, I had the seat stitched in 20mins to my satisfaction, recently offered a very good deal on a Seat Arona (my third one) couldn't resist so the saggy stitched drivers seat is no longer my problem :)however I have noticed the stitching is coming apart on the joint at the rear of the drivers side bolster approx 5mm so I have stitched it back together, needle and black cotton, hope it doesn't get worse, not good on a 4 month old car with only 1600 miles on the clock
A 4 montholdNEW car with only 1600 miles on the clock and you didn't visit the dealer to complain?
Faux leather can split due to its synthetic materials, which lack the natural elasticity of real leather. Continuous flexing and exposure to harsh conditions can cause the layers to degrade and separate, leading to splits and cracks.
Just had a look at my .pdf brochure for the Jazz and Crosstar from 2020 on which I based my purchase Decision .........
So the splitting will continueYes the splitting will probably continue, it was the fabric part of the seat on my Crosstar that came unstitched
Why not just use fabric on the susceptible areas and be done ?
Just had a look at my .pdf brochure for the Jazz and Crosstar from 2020 on which I based my purchase Decision .........
Check the last page of the the brochure. It states:
These specification details do not apply to any particular product which is supplied or offered for sale. ...... This publication shall not constitute in any circumstances whatsoever an offer by the Company to any person. All sales are made by the Distributor or Dealer concerned ....... Customers are always advised to discuss specification details with the supplying Dealer especially if your model selection is dependent upon one of the features advertised.
Your contract is with the dealer, so I guess you'll need evidence that the dealer stated that the seats were leather and that this was a condition of your selection for purchase.
Interestingly, the current brochure refers to synthetic leather for the upholstery.
Its started to happen on my 21 plate SR jazz too . On my last Nissan Note it did same thing , as the side panel is synthetic’leather’ . I ‘ repaired ‘ that by buying some black ( artificial alcantra - not spelt correctly ) from Amazon and gluing on a cut out strip. Folded the top edge and looked tidy .I've seen 4 way stretch 'spandex' leather effect material on-line ,intended for making clothing. Its about half the gsm weight of traditional leather pvc so should be more flexible and easier to sew or glue in place. And probably less liable to crack or split. And also 'sticky back', suede effect . It might even be possible to 'rivet' a repair panel over the damaged area using neatly spaced cap rivets etc.
Product quality - what should you expect?
As with the Sale of Goods Act, under the Consumer Rights Act all products must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.
The rules also include digital content in this definition. So all products - whether physical or digital - must meet the following standards:
Fit for purpose: The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods.
As described: The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.
Satisfactory quality: Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.
One aspect of a product being of satisfactory quality is durability, in other words how long it lasts.
...
But with older Mk4's its increasingly likely a repair under warranty will be refused as 'fair wear and tear' and owners less willing to spend mega bucks on quality air bag compliant seat covers. (or pay dealers £600 for a repair)
...
I'm not a resident so I don't actually know for sure. However, I rather doubt passing MOT depends on the driver's seat not having any cracks.
Over the years I've had quite a few cars with plastic seats and they've never split, what's changed
I've been in contact with honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com and, so far, had two refusals to accept responsibility for the sub-standard 'material' used in side panels - when compared with earlier Jazz models and 'Crosstar' models. This was after my application for it to be repaired on (extended) warranty was refused via the dealer and a second attempt instigated by the Group Operations Director of my dealer was also rejected by Honda.
I would be very pleased, dfconnolly, if you pursued Honda by the same or any alternative route you have available!
In my claim I quoted extracts from about 15 individuals who have reported these issues on Club Jazz forum over the past 2 or 3 years (including one or two who have claimed successfully - in Italy, Japan and Boston) and the response was (paraphrased) 'whilst we acknowledge the evidence you have provided and claim of substandard materials, we are going to do nothing'.
honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com suggest the next step is the motor ombudsman, but I'm thinking, that before the ombudsman the 'Consumer Rights Act 2015' might be useful. It seems (I'll do more research) that for 6 years after purchase you can claim that the seller - i.e the dealer (not manufacturer - which seem unfair!) sold goods which were not of merchantable quality or durability. Durability seems the key thing here - you surely shouldn't expect car seats which have been used, in my case 45,000 miles, to fall apart - and with the same 'pattern' of falling apart as illustrated by other contributors.
If anybody has had a satisfactory response from Honda UK for getting this problem fixed OUTSIDE the standard 3 year Warranty period could they kindly post on forum as to how this was progressed and achieved
All contribution gratefully appreciated, thanks in advance.
I keep checking my 72 EX and still no sign of wear after 35k. Me and the wife drive, seat adjustment back and forwards only.. but the white'ish grey pleather panel still looks fine.I wonder if the lighter material is more resilient than the black stuff?
A car maker claimed that the seats were part leather in the bullet points highlighting the features of the specific variant. It turned out that it was synthetic leather and it failed after three years but less than five.
On those facts, the car maker (and usually the dealer) would **not be able to rely on small print** to get out of responsibility, and the description **“part leather”** is the key issue.
Here’s how UK consumer law looks at it.
---
## 1. Was “part leather” misleading?
Yes — **if no natural leather was used at all**.
Under UK law, a product is misleading if it gives the **average consumer** a false impression about a **material characteristic**. Upholstery ……..
An excellent posting here from Network Man (and also Colin B) that breathes further clarity into the circumstances and options moving forward in the situation.
Much appreciated for the an ongoing mission in the New Year!
Thanks to all our Clubjazz contributors, we got there with the Brake Feel Simiulator Module recall, sorry “Product Improvement”, let’s try and get success and a “Product Improvement “ on this seat issue.
Happy Honda Christmas!
I've been in contact with honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com and, so far, had two refusals to accept responsibility for the sub-standard 'material' used in side panels - when compared with earlier Jazz models and 'Crosstar' models. This was after my application for it to be repaired on (extended) warranty was refused via the dealer and a second attempt instigated by the Group Operations Director of my dealer was also rejected by Honda.
I would be very pleased, dfconnolly, if you pursued Honda by the same or any alternative route you have available!
In my claim I quoted extracts from about 15 individuals who have reported these issues on Club Jazz forum over the past 2 or 3 years (including one or two who have claimed successfully - in Italy, Japan and Boston) and the response was (paraphrased) 'whilst we acknowledge the evidence you have provided and claim of substandard materials, we are going to do nothing'.
honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com suggest the next step is the motor ombudsman, but I'm thinking, that before the ombudsman the 'Consumer Rights Act 2015' might be useful. It seems (I'll do more research) that for 6 years after purchase you can claim that the seller - i.e the dealer (not manufacturer - which seem unfair!) sold goods which were not of merchantable quality or durability. Durability seems the key thing here - you surely shouldn't expect car seats which have been used, in my case 45,000 miles, to fall apart - and with the same 'pattern' of falling apart as illustrated by other contributors.
Here is what could happen going down the ombudsman route but your claim (as many posters have commented) will be AGAINST THE DEALER and you’d need proof that they falsely claimed the material was LEATHER!
Mercedes-Benz has faced accusations and a ruling by the UK Motor Ombudsman for misleading advertising regarding the composition of their car seats. The seats, described simply as "leather," were found to be only partially genuine leather, with other parts made from synthetic materials (vinyl/polyurethane).
Details of the Case
The Complaint: In 2019, a retired British businessman, Mr. Costello, became suspicious of his Mercedes E-Class SE's "leather" interior after reading about a similar case. He had samples of the seat upholstery analyzed in a laboratory, which confirmed that while the main seating surface was genuine bovine leather, the sides and some other areas were a synthetic polyurethane material.
Mercedes' Response: Mercedes-Benz argued that the seats were compliant with rules regarding what could be described as leather, stating they used other materials "to give it rigidity and structure". A spokesman also admitted the company could have been clearer in its brochures.
The Ruling: The independent Motor Ombudsman ruled in favor of the customer, stating that if a document says the interior is "leather," the assumption is that it is fully leather and the description was therefore "misleading".
Outcome: Mr. Costello was awarded £850 (approximately $1,100 USD) in compensation, and it was suggested that the ruling could open the door for other similar claims. In a separate but related incident, another customer received a full refund and returned the car.
As usual all thoughts and comments appreciated
Topics Sides of front seats splitting and Driver's seat wear merged.
I was hoping that a merge would happen as I was getting confused flicking between the two posts, so Many thanks for that Richard.
I must say that I am embarrassed by the number of times I have posted on this subject so apologies to everybody for the overload !!
And no doubt it could fail again within years
Not necessarily, the part numbers for both front seat covers have now been superseded TWICE now ending with a -JL2ZC vis 81131-TZA-JL2ZC and 8153-TZA-JL2ZC………….the originals were different part numbers ending in ……ZA.
This is specifically for a 21 Sunburst White with Black/grey trim.
I'm quite sure my 2013 Civic EX was proper leather seats
All over, not part fabric
Thanks Kremmen,
I have had a Civic Tourer EX, a CRV SR and EX which all have Full Leather seats.
My current CRV EX (which I intend keeping) is full Ivory leather and I don’t have any issues with the trim failing like it does on these early Jazzes.
I bet you are glad that you got rid of your Jazz before the seats possibly may have started to fail!
I've been in contact with honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com and, so far, had two refusals to accept responsibility for the sub-standard 'material' used in side panels - when compared with earlier Jazz models and 'Crosstar' models. This was after my application for it to be repaired on (extended) warranty was refused via the dealer and a second attempt instigated by the Group Operations Director of my dealer was also rejected by Honda.
I would be very pleased, dfconnolly, if you pursued Honda by the same or any alternative route you have available!
In my claim I quoted extracts from about 15 individuals who have reported these issues on Club Jazz forum over the past 2 or 3 years (including one or two who have claimed successfully - in Italy, Japan and Boston) and the response was (paraphrased) 'whilst we acknowledge the evidence you have provided and claim of substandard materials, we are going to do nothing'.
honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com suggest the next step is the motor ombudsman, but I'm thinking, that before the ombudsman the 'Consumer Rights Act 2015' might be useful. It seems (I'll do more research) that for 6 years after purchase you can claim that the seller - i.e the dealer (not manufacturer - which seem unfair!) sold goods which were not of merchantable quality or durability. Durability seems the key thing here - you surely shouldn't expect car seats which have been used, in my case 45,000 miles, to fall apart - and with the same 'pattern' of falling apart as illustrated by other contributors.
To only guarantee the seat cover from a defect after just 3 years is beyond belief
I am in the same situation having had my request for a repair or goodwill gesture for the seat splitting refused by Honda escalations on the basis it is out of warranty. They have pointed me at the Motor Ombudsman.Thanks, Jazztones.
Has anyone tested this route?
I am thinking next step is to go back to the dealer we bought the car from, with a claim under the Consumer Rights Act as this part of the upholstery is clearly not fit for purpose.
It would be interesting to know if 'leather' is described differently, and maybe more accurately, in different European countries on their local Honda websites, brochures and dealership paperwork etc . Knowledge of Honda using a more accurate and honourable description in other countries may help with a UK dispute .
I've retained the July 2023 price list from Honda Switzerland (the one in effect when I made the contract to buy my Jazz Advance).
It states for the Jazz Advance's interiour:
- Stoff/Leder*-Ausstattung (fabric/leather*-trim)
with the footnote:
*Synthetisches Leder (synthetic leather)
I have several more recent price lists on file as well which all have the same wording and footnote.
Hope this helps!
HEADS UP!
I hope to post some interesting news if things go to plan this week!
Watch this space...........
Jazztones, Lincolnshire Rambler, Jazzik, GeoffW, Spodric, dannyboi, Ged 15, ndavey…….you may be especially interested in this posting!
At last, I can report that there has now been successful replacement of the splitting seat covers on early EX/SR Jazz models undertaken as “a gesture of Goodwill” by Honda UK; mine were replaced with the latest superseded parts just a few weeks ago on a 21 plate EX (outside its 3-year warranty) and another Jazz owner in similar circumstances has also had his seat covers replaced on that “Goodwill” basis.
As already reported within this thread there were several instances of incorrect trim material descriptions in the 2 brochures published in May and August of 2020. Honda HME-UK ‘Automotive Product Department’ have confirmed and acknowledged this mis-type and ensured that all brochures after 2021 clarified that this is not real leather.
This is crucially pivotal in pursuing front seat cover replacement by highlighting:
1. The misleading brochure terminology error of “Leather” was an important and crucial factor misleadingly affecting your decision in the purchasing process.
2. “The goodwill action has been extended specifically in the light of the incorrect description in the Jazz’s marketing material and Honda’s commitment to supporting its customers wherever reasonably possible”
3. You would need to e-mail Honda ‘escalations’ directly using the following e-mail address: -
customer.headoffice@honda-eu.com
Supply them with your registration number, VIN, mileage, purchase details and attach pictures of your split seats and the false brochure descriptions (you can find the relevant brochures via Google or within the attachments submitted on this thread).
I hereby rest my case after a protracted exercise in perseverance.
Sincere thanks to all those positive contributors on this thread who have pointed us in the right direction, especially: -Nr16 apple, Kremmen, JB, Lord Voltermore, NetworkMan (especially for the AI legal references for my Litigious approach to Honda), and of course Richard A (Admin)
Forgive me for thinking that history is repeating itself!Forgive me as well (for being completeley off-topic again):
Why we have to deal with Honda in mainland Europe when they have a very large Honda UK office complex in Bracknell beats me. To be able to communicate with someone in the UK would surely be better