Author Topic: Autonomous vehicles.  (Read 12885 times)

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #135 on: May 13, 2019, 10:34:03 AM »
BMW has confirmed that the iNext, their all electric SUV, will feature Level 3 autonomous driving when it is released in 2021, but they will also release a fleet of 500 Level 5 vehicles for testing around the world, with a view to allowing governments to design legislation to cover the use of such vehicles.

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #136 on: May 15, 2019, 08:47:36 AM »
Interesting video on Autonomous vehicles. I think culzean will agree with most of this.


culzean

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #137 on: May 15, 2019, 09:38:10 AM »
I have been involved in automation pretty much all my working life and it is very hard to make things behave even in a well organised environment. When the car programmers come out with statements ( after driverless cars hit stationary vehicles as big as firetrucks ) that 'we have to program the system to ignore stationary objects otherwise they stop for every fire hydrant and keep right bollard' you wonder what is going on. Humans have a great ability to anticipate things, when I am driving along a curved road with cars parked I often see a reflection of a vehicle or a DRL in a car door and slow down and move left before I even see the vehicle..  I saw an article once where a programmer said that those captchur images used for website security ( click on squares with traffic lights, buses, fire hydrants etc etc etc are actually used to make the AI of driver less cars better ).  They say driver less cars are already better than humans - but one fatality every 100,000,000 miles for human drivers in USA takes some beating.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #138 on: May 15, 2019, 10:09:10 AM »
So it does, but the figure for 2017 was actually 1 death per 8,652,681 miles driven, according to Wiki.

culzean

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #139 on: May 17, 2019, 08:52:12 PM »
Tessa cars really seem to be attracted to large trucks.

https://www.wired.com/story/teslas-latest-autopilot-death-looks-like-prior-crash/

Stated once again in this article that 'radar is programmed to ignore stationary objects to filter out false positives '  but the cameras did not pick up the truck either. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #140 on: May 17, 2019, 09:03:51 PM »
After reading the report it seems like natural selection at play.

culzean

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #141 on: May 23, 2019, 08:20:52 PM »
https://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/self-driving-cars-dont-hold-your-breath.html

When a 5 year old can outperform the AI controlling a vehicle time to reconsider.   When an AV does not recognise a pedestrian because they are pushing a bicycle ( and kills them ) and a painting of a person on a billboard or vehicle fools an AV, when an AV has been programmed to ignore stationary objects because if is not it will stop every few metres. The AV car makers moved their testing out of California because the states laws required them to report every time the vehicle went wrong and human had to take control, because the figures were awful.   Don't hold you breath.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #142 on: May 23, 2019, 08:50:04 PM »
Read a report this week about a journo who was being chauffeured in one of the Waymo self driving taxis in Phoenix, Arizona. They were on a busy freeway and when they came to their off ramp they couldn't get into lane one, as the traffic was nose to tail. A human driver would have pushed until someone let them in, but the AI was being extra safe, and they ended up going three more off ramps before it could get off!
Accidents that are caused by drivers trying to get Level 3 vehicles doing Level 5 driving I ignore. The woman pushing the bike was down to the driver of the car, not the AI. I admit that AI is not there yet, and may be a number of years before it gets there, but the will is there and the technology will get there.

richardfrost

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #143 on: May 24, 2019, 02:12:45 PM »
They were on a busy freeway and when they came to their off ramp they couldn't get into lane one, as the traffic was nose to tail. A human driver would have pushed until someone let them in, but the AI was being extra safe, and they ended up going three more off ramps before it could get off!

However, autonomous cars have one potential advantage over humans - the potential to communicate and negotiate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48359322/driverless-cars-cambridge-university-model-cars-talk-to-avoid-jams

Watch the video and see the difference when the cars communicate with each other. Humans would never behave like that.

Of course this will only work well when ALL cars are autonomous, as one belligerent human would mess up the whole flow.

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #144 on: July 27, 2019, 01:13:27 PM »
Just watched Click, on BBC News channel (available on iPlayer here https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00073xh/click-the-selfdriving-revolution ) and it was very enlightening. Didn't realise culzean was a US Army vet  ;D

culzean

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #145 on: July 27, 2019, 02:47:11 PM »
That guy from Oxbots seemed to be saying that humans could not judge distance and the Lidar / Radar stuff was better, for all intents and purposes within the limit of how far you can see and how far you need to see to judge distance for braking etc humans are superb.  What happens when a fly or something bigger gets splattered on the sensors, it is bad enough on a motorbike with a pretty big visor and field of view,  but on those cameras it could easily block 50% or more of the view, snowflakes, rain, mist and fog still a problem for the sensors used at present.  Humans also have anticipation and can recognize what something is even if we have not seen it before, and anticipate how the situation will unfold, things like leaving as much room as possible when passing parked cars in case a door opens etc. .   The problem with humans is getting them to pay attention,  if they did there would not be a problem,  human emotions are also a problem and many accidents are caused by aggression for some perceived wrong done to you by another road user.  Human senses are superb for driving,  humans being distracted and emotional are the problem.

The frightening think about the Uber Volvo / pedestrian fatality was that the vehicle made no attempt to slow down,  and stories of systems having to be programmed to ignore stationary objects ( even ones as big as fire trucks that cars have hit without attempting to slow down) because if they weren't they would be stopping for every lamp-post or fire hydrant or keep left sign are not encouraging.

If I was a Veteran I would have used a Bazooker not a pistol....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #146 on: July 28, 2019, 10:01:18 AM »
How many dirty cars do you see in the UK in winter due to salt and grit spray? In a period of bad weather maybe half the cars are like that.

Imagine the sensors on an AV... 

"Wash your car sensors every day and after 100 miles on a motorway"...  ain't going to happen...

ColinS

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #147 on: July 28, 2019, 10:42:20 AM »
My parking sensors went berserk last week due a fly impaling itself on one of the front sensors.  Of course it only activated when I slowed down at a junction.  It was one of those brief panic moments while I figured out WTF was happening.

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #148 on: July 28, 2019, 01:16:09 PM »
Autonomous car will probably keep its own sensors clean. Even if it didn't. it would stop you driving until they are clean.
Parking sensors are about as basic a sensor as you can get. Radar and Lidar a bit more sophisticated.
Big bumper trucks in the mines seem to manage in dirty conditions.

http://digg.com/2017/waymo-clean-lidar

richardfrost

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #149 on: July 28, 2019, 04:42:41 PM »
My parking sensors went berserk last week due a fly impaling itself on one of the front sensors.  Of course it only activated when I slowed down at a junction.  It was one of those brief panic moments while I figured out WTF was happening.
Snow settling on my moving car has caused the same thing for me.

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