Author Topic: Autonomous vehicles.  (Read 10944 times)

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #120 on: October 22, 2018, 10:09:02 AM »
According to the BBC, Addison Lee, the premium private hire and courier service, are planning on self driving taxis, in London, by 2021. Chancellor Philip Hammond said last year he wanted to have "fully driverless cars" without a safety attendant on board in use by 2021, so this is in line with that hope.

BBC Business report of Addison Lee's announcement

Humans are so much better than anyone likes to admit, sure there are 'narrow AI' devices that can beat us at some things,  but overall our understanding of the world and making sense of what we see is in most part so instinctive that we think anything can do it,  unfortunately that is not the case. Would not surprise me if sleazy politicians like Phil Hammond have lots of shares in autonomous car companies and are pushing the tech for personal gain. Politicians do not understand most things,  but they understand money pretty good, and if it comes down to profit or the good of the public,  guess what comes first ?  One of the things Trump supporters like about him is 'that he understands business made his money before he went into politics, most others do it the other way around' (hint - most politicians trained as lawyers or accountants).  MIT and other high tech institutions realise the limitations of the the tech,  as one MIT professor said, 'don't expect your autonomous taxi to turn up if the weather is bad' ( one of the reasons the present trials are carried out in perfectly dry states like Arizona ).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/15/crucial-flaw-of-self-driving-cars-always-need-human-involvement
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 10:10:55 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #121 on: October 22, 2018, 08:37:59 PM »
By a ratio of 3:1 fatal accidents occur more on rural roads, where speeds are higher, roads are narrower, more twisty and hilly, road surfaces not so good and often covered in leaves or mud - this is the area where autonomous cars could make the most difference ( if they could ever travel above 15mph ), but it is the area where they will be least at home. With hedges and trees scattering back random reflections to sensors, road markings missing or obscured by leaves or mud and roads not cleared of snow. Initially ( and IMHO for a long time ) AV will be restricted to small and well defined city areas, where accidents are normally a lot less serious than in rural areas. Will it be possible for AV to pass on a single track road with passing refuges like normal human controlled cars do all the time ? How about if an AV has to cross a double white line to pass a slow or stopped tractor or vehicle, and how about detecting and safely passing cyclists ?  Just a few on many scenarios that humans take in their stride and hardly need to think about.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 883
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.4 ES CVT -2012
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #122 on: October 22, 2018, 09:40:56 PM »
Agree with Culzean above. I regularly cross a ford, travel along roads strewn with branches after storms, travel through snowdrifts etc.

How will autonomous cars cope with deep snow? And ice? Badly I suggest..(and one winter morning with literally everything covered with 1cm of shiny ice - trees, walls, the road, signs etc.. breathtakingly beautiful but reflecting light everywhere)

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #123 on: October 23, 2018, 03:54:54 PM »
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/01/09/476667.htm

"Companies pursuing automated driving are appealing to cities to build infrastructure that will aid the functioning of their autonomous vehicles. For Aptiv and Lyft’s demo in Las Vegas, traffic lights along the route are equipped with sensors that give the cars extra directive on whether to stop or go"

This article says what I have thought for a long time,  that the roads will have to change to suit AV. Transponders on traffic signals and speed limit signs etc etc - why not just put wires under the road like they have been doing in industry with AV internal logistic trains since early 1980's ...   This is why AV will be limited to certain specific urban areas that have been modified for their needs, and the idea of free roaming AV that can take you from Lands End to John O'Groats remains a distant pipe dream, science fiction that may never become science fact.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 04:06:30 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #124 on: October 30, 2018, 04:47:23 PM »
Just reading a book about the human brain, first thing that interested me is that humans underwent a massive increase in brain size ( compared to our chimpanzee ancestors ) when they started eating meat ( bring me a 16 ounce T bone I have an exam coming up  lol). The other interesting bit was that in a piece of the human brain the size of a grain of sand there are around a thousand million connections - literally mind blowing.  Most of our brain runs in automatic mode, and the amount of brain we use to carry out 'voluntary' tasks like driving is tiny ( but the background brain is seamlessly processing all the vision and muscle movements in the background).  This is what crude human AI has to compete against.... a massively competent human computer perfected over millions of years of evolution, where the fittest and most able survived.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 04:58:06 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #125 on: November 06, 2018, 08:21:21 AM »
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/3/27/17163264/autonomous-car-self-driving-advertising-business

This makes bad reading for anyone who hates online ads - prepare to be bombarded by advertisments you cannot turn off during your autonomous car journey ( LOL )
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #126 on: November 27, 2018, 09:57:00 AM »
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17530232/self-driving-ai-winter-full-autonomy-waymo-tesla-uber

This article discusses the present 'AI winter' - as the evangelists of driverless cars realise what a hard act to follow the human brain is..


https://blog.piekniewski.info/2018/02/09/a-v-safety-2018-update/

This article tracks the trends of 'disengagement' ( when auto system has to be overridden  by a human ) and notes that they are not getting any less,  and while not every disengagement is an accident,  but being kind and saying 1 in 10 may well be, it seems the cars still have a long long way to go to match present human safety record.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 05:29:22 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

richardfrost

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 404
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Black 2005 1.4 SE
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #127 on: January 28, 2019, 01:38:23 PM »
You could not make this stuff up...

From computing.co.uk - Could lidars damage camera sensors used on self driving vehicles?

https://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/3069964/could-lidars-damage-camera-sensors-used-on-self-driving-vehicles?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=CTG.Daily_RL.EU.A.U&im_edp=140013-a1c9d342563edd34%26campaignname%3DCTG.Daily_RL.EU.A.U&utm_term=Other%20-%20Bank&im_company=YORKSHIRE%20BUILDING%20SOCIETY&utm_term=2000%20to%204999

Most of the article is behind a paywall / membership wall, but I think the headline tells you all that you need to know. I think this stems from a story from the CES show in Las Vegas earlier this month when a guy with a brand new camera took photos of an autonomous vehicle on display, with active lidar, and later realised his camera sensor had duff pixels.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 01:40:36 PM by richardfrost »

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #128 on: January 28, 2019, 02:15:17 PM »
You could not make this stuff up...

From computing.co.uk - Could lidars damage camera sensors used on self driving vehicles?

https://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/3069964/could-lidars-damage-camera-sensors-used-on-self-driving-vehicles?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=CTG.Daily_RL.EU.A.U&im_edp=140013-a1c9d342563edd34%26campaignname%3DCTG.Daily_RL.EU.A.U&utm_term=Other%20-%20Bank&im_company=YORKSHIRE%20BUILDING%20SOCIETY&utm_term=2000%20to%204999

Most of the article is behind a paywall / membership wall, but I think the headline tells you all that you need to know. I think this stems from a story from the CES show in Las Vegas earlier this month when a guy with a brand new camera took photos of an autonomous vehicle on display, with active lidar, and later realised his camera sensor had duff pixels.

We used to use much shorter range laser sensors at a company i worked for and they all carried a health warning that the beam could damage your eyes,  we even had to put heavily coloured plastic screens around the cells where laser sensors were used to prevent any stray beam shining in anyones eyes, the only other places we had to do this was when MIG and TIG welding robots were used.  The LIDAR lasers are long range and pretty powerful so it does not surprise me at all that they can wreck camera sensors,  but these LIDAR equipped vehicles will be operating in public spaces - --- so where are the safeguards for humans and any cameras that are around ? 

Radar is another thing most cars are getting nowadays,  and driverless cars need more of it and more powerful systems, over 200 yards range to be any use at all at speeds above a walking pace.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwjYs-OW1ZDgAhUJVBUIHaN7DysQFjAAegQICxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwi-cancer.info%2FAutomotive%2520Radar.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3bfZfoxPV7nm-gqvTHIGSW

It has all gone very quiet on the self-driving car news front, no headlines promising us self driving cars within 12 months due to massive breakthroughs on AI and magical new sensors,  I guess the AV people have suddenly realised how far behind humans their efforts have been so far and they have realised that the last 5% will be harder than the first 95% - as usual the devil is in the detail.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 02:31:28 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3884
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #130 on: January 28, 2019, 03:53:59 PM »
Bit more about it here.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/01/man-says-ces-lidars-laser-was-so-powerful-it-wrecked-his-1998-camera/

So this could affect dashcams and any other camera like CCTV and smartphones - and the more AV around the more likely it is to have a beam coming your way...according to articles I have read previously the human lens and aqueous humour filters out LIDAR wavelengths before they get to retina, but replacement lenses may not - in any case if the eye absorbs these pulses they are bound to cause damage..most of the lasers work on infrared wavelengths which generate heat in anything they shine on.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

richardfrost

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 404
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Black 2005 1.4 SE
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #131 on: January 28, 2019, 10:21:34 PM »
Prince Philip will be alright though. The lidar canít penetrate his cataracts.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #132 on: March 03, 2019, 06:33:39 PM »
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/delusions/realism-creeps-driverless-dream-2019-02/

Maybe reality is dawning at last, thought it had all gone quiet with no announcements of massive breakthroughs just around the corner and free roaming driver less vehicles able to drive from one end of country to the other on their own.

https://qz.com/1397504/all-the-things-that-still-baffle-self-driving-cars-starting-with-seagulls/
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 06:48:02 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3884
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #133 on: April 23, 2019, 09:47:12 AM »
Elon Musk has just announced that a new microchip developed jointly with Samsung should see driverless taxis operating in some US cities by 2020.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/22/tech/tesla-robotaxis/index.html

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4942
  • Country: england
Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #134 on: April 23, 2019, 10:20:24 AM »
Elon Musk has just announced that a new microchip developed jointly with Samsung should see driverless taxis operating in some US cities by 2020.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/22/tech/tesla-robotaxis/index.html

Good Ole Elon certainly knows how to keep investors happy with regular doses of Hype..... he is like Thomas Edison ( who was a salesman not an engineer,  and he made loads of money out of filching other peoples ideas and marketing them before they did).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top