Author Topic: Jazz security.  (Read 5142 times)

Jocko

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2017, 09:54:45 PM »
Not good.

Kenneve

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2017, 04:55:59 PM »
I'm sorry guys, but I still don't understand the theory behind the interrogation of the keyfob.

I trained in the RAF as an Air Wireless Fitter, working on equipment installed in the Avro Vulcan bomber, albeit some 60 odd years ago, when radios had glass tubes fitted, which 'glowed in the dark'.!!!

I understand that the car is probably 'on watch' 24/7 and I understand about the 'black box' amplifier, but I don't understand how the keyfob can listen 24/7 and respond without the power being applied. Can someone point me to any articles, which explain the theory?

Many thanks

culzean

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2017, 05:15:04 PM »
Look up / google RFID tags,  (radio frequency identification tags) they are widely used in industry attached to products , especially cars on production lines, they carry all the data about the car, colour, upholstery spec, wheels etc. And are interrogated at each production station. The passive chips carry no power supply, they are interrogated by receivers which supply power via the radio signal ( only work at a very short range)   

When used as keyless entry, the transmitter / receiver in the car is always on standby to interrogate a passing card / fob.

Chips can be passive, short range device powered by the radio signal,  or active powered by battery which gives them much longer range.  Think of RFID tag as a transponder which transmits information when activated by suitable wireless signal.

The keyless cars are notoriously easy to steal,  if the card / fob is anywhere near house wall or door it can be activated by one scanner, it then transmits code to another device near the car which unlocks car and allows it to be started - once started it can be driven away with no card present.

Security people reckon you should keep fob in a faraday cage (wrap in aluminium foil or keep in purpose made metallized pouch which are also useful for keeping your contactless credit and debit cards in) - even a metalised plastic crisp packet will do LOL . Nothing that uses wireless or is connected to internet can ever be secure.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 08:42:58 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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andruec

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2017, 07:41:44 PM »
but I don't understand how the keyfob can listen 24/7 and respond without the power being applied.
The key fob has a battery in it. It is probably listening 24/7 but only transmits when the car 'asks' it to. With modern electronics I would guess that a short range receiver requires very little power. In fact it's possible that as Culzean says the receiver is just using passive RFID the same as contactless payment cards use. So the battery in the fob may only be used when transmitting a code.

culzean

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2017, 08:40:15 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID_skimming

Theft of data from non-contact systems - skimming

https://www.securerf.com/cryptographic-security-for-keyless-car-entry-systems-not-gone-in-60-seconds/

Most vehicles use same code, just like 80% of farm tractors in UK (maybe the world ) used the same physical ignition key LOL

Many things that are done for 'convenience' turn out to be insecure.  Which is why data transmitted via cables is a lot more secure than wireless.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 08:47:16 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

martint123

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2017, 09:18:33 PM »
If you watch the fob on a keyless Jazz there is a tiny red LED.
If the car is locked and you go for the handle to unlock it the LED flashes on the fob.
Same if you're inside and press the start button (no clutch) just to turn the ignition on.

The fob listens 27/7 and replies to the car when interrogated.

ColinS

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2017, 09:53:05 PM »
The fob listens 27/7
Clever these Japanese!

andruec

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2017, 08:01:19 AM »
The fob listens 27/7 and replies to the car when interrogated.
Seems a bit wasteful of the battery. 24/7 ought to be enough I feel  :P

ColinB

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2017, 12:40:25 PM »
The fob listens 27/7 and replies to the car when interrogated.
Seems a bit wasteful of the battery. 24/7 ought to be enough I feel  :P
Not really, it's only one day a year ...  ;D

culzean

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2018, 06:29:40 PM »
Just had an e-mail from Halfords about their range of vehicle security products, including steering wheel disc locks, bar type steering wheel locks and wheel clamps. As usual the new keyless security on vehicles that is fitted for convenience has turned out to be very convenient for criminals as well.  So now you have keyless entry but have to fit a dirty great locking cover to steering wheel every time you leave it unattended - something that went out of use years ago with immobilisers and infrared fobs, which were secure, then we had wireless fobs which were less secure as signal could be intercepted, now we have keyless which is least secure so far.  Progress eh........
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 08:40:18 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

andruec

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2018, 04:28:41 PM »
Meh. No self-respecting thief is going to steal a Honda Jazz.

Skyrider

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2018, 04:55:29 PM »
Meh. No self-respecting thief is going to steal a Honda Jazz.

Agreed, our local scrotes would not be seen dead in one.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 08:18:32 AM by Skyrider »

ColinB

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2018, 10:04:48 AM »
Meh. No self-respecting thief is going to steal a Honda Jazz.

Agreed, our local scrotes would not be seen dead in one.

Obviously there are some scrotes somewhere who are seriously lacking in self-respect:
http://www.theweek.co.uk/80123/revealed-the-five-cars-most-at-risk-of-being-stolen

Jocko

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Re: Jazz security.
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2018, 10:25:16 AM »
Wonder if they get stolen because they are easy to steal?

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