Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 137750 times)

Kremmen

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1635 on: November 20, 2020, 03:44:08 PM »
No tax for the first three years, then if you change your car every three years .......
Let's be careful out there!

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1636 on: November 20, 2020, 05:08:18 PM »
Odometer reading at MOT?

Seems the obvious answer, but you can imagine illicit 'mileage correction' services becoming a bit more popular. Another answer is a system of tolling on trunk roads, similar to France - piling traffic onto minor roads...

Whatever system they come up with, some drivers will try to avoid paying.

JimSh

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1637 on: November 20, 2020, 06:01:58 PM »
No tax for the first three years, then if you change your car every three years .......
Yearly check then.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1638 on: November 20, 2020, 07:11:29 PM »
My brother was telling me he is thinking of replacing his BMW 320d with a BMW i3. It is perfect, or his motoring needs and he has off-road parking in a huge drive.
He said he noticed the neighbour across the road had a loaner Porsche Cayenne, Not unusual as they drop one off every time they take her one away for servicing but today a local electrical company installed a Tesla charge point in their drive. Hence, he thinks the Cayenne must be off for sale. She is an SUV fan, so he reckons he will be seeing a Model X in the drive soon.

Kremmen

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1639 on: November 21, 2020, 04:24:53 AM »
'Tesla charge point'

Are they going down the same route as MK1 smart meters that only work with 1 company hence trying to persuade you not to switch.
Let's be careful out there!

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1640 on: November 21, 2020, 10:11:48 AM »
This couple has a Lotus Elise and a Porsche Cayenne, both with matching personal plates. If they decide to go for another marque I don't think replacing the Tesla charge point with something else will be more than pocket change. However, I believe it is a type 2 connector so you can use it for a variety of electric vehicles.
I know you can get an adaptor to charge the Leaf from Tesla Destination charge points.

JimSh

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richardfrost

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1642 on: November 23, 2020, 12:26:33 PM »
But what about all the electrically-powered heat pumps to be used to warm our homes? Many of those will be turned on to coincide with the evening peak.
I don't think this is how heat pumps work is it? You can't just turn them on and have instant heat in the average domestic setup. You need to have a brand new, fully insulated and energy efficient home. The heat pump then has much less work to do running all the time to maintain a constant temperature, rather than having to work hard to raise the temperature from ambient to comfortable twice a day. That's why they will never be retrofitted into most homes. Electric (or possibly hydrogen) boilers are the proposal to replace (North Sea/Russian) gas, as I understand it.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1643 on: November 23, 2020, 01:16:48 PM »
But what about all the electrically-powered heat pumps to be used to warm our homes? Many of those will be turned on to coincide with the evening peak.
I don't think this is how heat pumps work is it? You can't just turn them on and have instant heat in the average domestic setup. You need to have a brand new, fully insulated and energy efficient home. The heat pump then has much less work to do running all the time to maintain a constant temperature, rather than having to work hard to raise the temperature from ambient to comfortable twice a day. That's why they will never be retrofitted into most homes. Electric (or possibly hydrogen) boilers are the proposal to replace (North Sea/Russian) gas, as I understand it.

It depends how they have been installed, and there is lots of retrofitting going on.

If they are retrofitted to a wet radiator system, i.e gas boiler replacement by a high temperature heat pump, they tend to be used in a similar way to the gas boilers - i.e. switched on when the heat is required.

A retrofitted air-air system, which blows warm air into the house, also tends to be used on demand.

If they are fitted as part of a new build, they are more commonly installed as part of an wet underfloor system. This type of system works on much lower water temperatures, and this makes the heat pumps far more efficient. As you say, these tend to be on all the time, maintaining a largely constant temperature. They also commonly bias towards off peak electricity, the slab acting as a thermal mass, or big storage heater.

richardfrost

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1644 on: November 23, 2020, 02:06:47 PM »
I don't think this is how heat pumps work is it?
Thanks for the clarification. I have not kept current on this for a while. I knew large scale implementations (e..g. Castle Howard) work differently, but I thought most domestic stuff was as part of new build.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1645 on: November 23, 2020, 02:38:43 PM »
There seems to be a push for retrofitting, especially now they have these high output temperature heat pumps which can directly replace a gas boiler.  Hot water has be from a cylinder though, with a immersion heater booster to prevent legionella... or provided by a instantaneous hot water boiler.

JimSh

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1646 on: November 23, 2020, 03:15:29 PM »
There seems to be a push for retrofitting, especially now they have these high output temperature heat pumps which can directly replace a gas boiler.  Hot water has be from a cylinder though, with a immersion heater booster to prevent legionella... or provided by a instantaneous hot water boiler.
A bit similar to the electric cars and the need for suitable home charging, the heat pumps will be more suitable for those who can afford the money for the initial installation and the space to allow a corner of a paddock to be dug up for the pipework.
I was speaking to the plumber, while he was servicing my boiler, and he reckoned that the noise in an urban or suburban environment when air to air heat exchangers were fitted would be horrendous.

richardfrost

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1647 on: November 23, 2020, 03:19:27 PM »
I know we are getting off subject now, although it has some relevance in touching on the availability of electrical capacity to charge up car batteries, but the whole idea of pumping hot water around a house seems a little daft to me these days. I have a couple of portable oil filled radiators which I use to boost the heating in the coldest parts of the house on the coldest days. I have seriously considered installing heating based on these given they can be individually controlled by timers and thermostats and controlled by any home automation system to provide truly agile, focussed heating where needed.

Can the heat pump just be used to generate local electrical power, perhaps supplemented by solar and subtle wind turbines to create truly local power into the grid, rather than converting each property, if indeed that is even possible? In my home town there is a huge empty gasworks site, situated by a regularly fast flowing river, which could probably be repurposed, especially given it is already a brownfield site.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 03:22:04 PM by richardfrost »

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1648 on: November 23, 2020, 04:56:53 PM »
Can the heat pump just be used to generate local electrical power, perhaps supplemented by solar and subtle wind turbines to create truly local power into the grid, rather than converting each property, if indeed that is even possible?

A heat pump does exactly what it says - it uses a refrigerant gas to transfer heat from one circuit (usually outside) to another circuit (usually inside). That heat can be sourced from the air or below ground, and is transferred to a wet central heating system inside, or a blown air heat exchanger. The Castle Howard installation is a ground source heat pump, with the primary circuit submerged in the lake, and the output of the heat pump connected to a traditional wet radiator heating system inside.

A heat pump cannot be used to generate electricity. There are some geothermal installations generating electricity, but that's a different thing altogether.

The advantage of the heat pump over distributed electric heaters is that the heat pump can achieve over 500% efficiency in a low temperature system, that is you can get over 5KW of heat output for 1KW of electricity input.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 05:02:00 PM by sparky Paul »

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1649 on: November 23, 2020, 05:51:13 PM »
Carrying on off-topic, there's a lot of heat pump info at https://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/renewables-solutions/all-products/. I'm considering investigating the hybrid air source heat pump which works alongside a conventional boiler. The heat pump does the work during moderately cold conditions with the boiler taking over when it's very cold and the heat pump ceases to be adequately efficient.

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