Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 137160 times)

ColinB

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 569
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2015 Jazz 1.3 SE manual in Milano Red
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1530 on: October 02, 2020, 12:50:50 PM »
Hybrids arenít necessarily a universal panacea. The company that runs the buses here in Bath introduced hybrids a couple of years ago to much fanfare, but earlier this year the MD went on record to say they didnít live up to the promise:
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/bath-needs-transport-revolution-electric-4350090
Excerpt:
ďWe had hybrid electric buses in Bath. They are completely unequal to the task. They had to be withdrawn and reengineered. The hills couldnít be conquered by them. Ē

madasafish

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1255
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.4 ES CVT -2012
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1531 on: October 02, 2020, 01:45:48 PM »
Hybrids arenít necessarily a universal panacea. The company that runs the buses here in Bath introduced hybrids a couple of years ago to much fanfare, but earlier this year the MD went on record to say they didnít live up to the promise:
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/bath-needs-transport-revolution-electric-4350090
Excerpt:
ďWe had hybrid electric buses in Bath. They are completely unequal to the task. They had to be withdrawn and reengineered. The hills couldnít be conquered by them. Ē

That is surely a damming indictment of the selection process?
I would have thought real life testing of at least one hybrid would have been needed.. especially knowing the hills in Bath.

richardfrost

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 704
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: Black 2005 1.4 SE
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1532 on: October 02, 2020, 03:49:14 PM »
That is interesting about the hills. I live near the top of a long hill and it is very hilly wherever I go within 5 or 10 miles from home. The weedy battery in my car is really only designed to go for a mile or so on the flat and even out progress the rest of the time. On any significant hill it is petrol all the way and this engine is not built for efficiency I believe as the mpg I get on hills is atrocious. Conversely, the battery can only capture so much charge on a long downhill before it gets full and then all that potential energy is wasted. One of the reasons I would like to go for a PHEV next time as I think it would cope better.

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1772
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2020 Jazz Crosstar
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1533 on: October 02, 2020, 10:39:07 PM »
However, there's a difference between the engine not having enough power to get up the hills if the battery is low and the engine not being at peak efficiency when having to work hard. Whoever chose the hybrid buses for Bath should know that the city centre is in the bottom of a valley with hills to north and south. Those buses would probably be happy in Swindon where the hills are more modest.

Manufacturers probably design for what they think is the best balance between performance and cost based on average conditions. Doubling the battery capacity, for example, might only increase the overall efficiency by 10% in average usage but give a much bigger benefit in hilly terrain.

madasafish

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1255
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.4 ES CVT -2012
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1534 on: October 03, 2020, 06:54:11 AM »
That is interesting about the hills. I live near the top of a long hill and it is very hilly wherever I go within 5 or 10 miles from home. The weedy battery in my car is really only designed to go for a mile or so on the flat and even out progress the rest of the time. On any significant hill it is petrol all the way and this engine is not built for efficiency I believe as the mpg I get on hills is atrocious. Conversely, the battery can only capture so much charge on a long downhill before it gets full and then all that potential energy is wasted. One of the reasons I would like to go for a PHEV next time as I think it would cope better.

Same issues here. I live 25% up a very long hill - over 1 mile long  and 150meters height rise..
Test drove a Prius years ago and found similar issues with fuel consumption as the battery recharges only for 1 mile...
When the engine was cold and the battery discharged, fuel consumption going up the hill was less than 20mpg..  (My Jazz is similar)..

And regenerative braking stops working after 0.5miles or so when the battery is full.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6345
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1535 on: October 03, 2020, 08:04:57 AM »
However, there's a difference between the engine not having enough power to get up the hills if the battery is low and the engine not being at peak efficiency when having to work hard. Whoever chose the hybrid buses for Bath should know that the city centre is in the bottom of a valley with hills to north and south. Those buses would probably be happy in Swindon where the hills are more modest.

Manufacturers probably design for what they think is the best balance between performance and cost based on average conditions. Doubling the battery capacity, for example, might only increase the overall efficiency by 10% in average usage but give a much bigger benefit in hilly terrain.

Problem with batteries they are heavy - and in commercial vehicles you have to be careful that the battery weight does not impact the payload you can carry - even the Outlander PHEV carries about 350 to 400kg batteries around - good for about 18miles from fully charged ( I know 2 people who had them as company cars,  but they rarely charged the battery anyway,  and were happy with the 30mpg  they normally got due to company paying for fuel while they pocketed the BIK ).   With batteries they don't get lighter as they discharge,  unlike an ICE fuel tank, which does, and for a lot more range is still a lot lighter when full due to high energy content of petroleum based fuels ).
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 12:16:50 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1255
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.4 ES CVT -2012
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1536 on: October 07, 2020, 06:27:26 AM »
Read this article about the e Peugeot 208

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/peugeot/peugeot-e-208-long-term-test-car-finally-convince-electric-way/

Full of gushing praise.
Then compare the official range (217 miles) , what she actually achieves (160miles) and think what will happen in winter..


And wonder why she gushes so much...


Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6366
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1537 on: October 07, 2020, 06:56:22 AM »
And wonder why she gushes so much...
A lot depends on what you use your car for. 160 miles and half that in winter would ably fit my electric car requirements. If I were up and down the country, doing lots of miles every day, I'd have a diesel.

madasafish

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1255
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.4 ES CVT -2012
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1538 on: October 07, 2020, 07:46:58 AM »
I need a car with a 170 mile range  -in winter..

Not often

But I go to Kilmarnock to see brother every year  or so  . Stay overnight   approx 400 mile round trip

And I go to a Bee show in March and come back laden with cheap equipment 160 mile round day trip. Showground with no charging facilities and 10,000 other show visitors so even if there were facilities they would be swamped.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6366
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1539 on: October 07, 2020, 08:37:03 AM »
My plan, when/if I get an electric car, is to hire a car for the odd times I need long-range. I cannot think, these days when that would be, but the need may arise. I had a mate who worked in town, liked the pub, shopped local, didn't own a car and hired a car every year for his summer hols in Wales. Made great financial sense.

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1772
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2020 Jazz Crosstar
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1540 on: October 07, 2020, 08:47:27 AM »
I need a car with a 170 mile range  -in winter.
Maybe the Kia e-Niro which claims 282 miles would meet your requirements https://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/e-niro/ ?

I noticed when looking through the September 2020 SMMT sales data that MG had more than doubled their sales compared to the previous year https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/. I wonder if this vehicle https://www.whatcar.com/mg-motor-uk/zs-ev/hatchback/review/n20171 is selling well as it's competitively priced.

springswood

  • Bob the Jazz
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 307
  • Country: gb
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Jazz GE3 1.4 Sport 2008
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1541 on: October 09, 2020, 08:42:47 AM »
I think hiring an ICE car when needed makes a lot of sense. Now our kid has moved to Portugal he hires one when he comes to visit. He always seems to find amazing deals on-line.
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1772
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2020 Jazz Crosstar
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1542 on: October 09, 2020, 08:52:45 PM »
The problem I have with some rental cars is that they have got the lights and wipers control stalks the wrong way round compared to what I'm used to and this results in an intention to indicate to turn results in the wipers operating, or vice-versa.

zzaj

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 671
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2014 1.4 EX CVT Orchid White
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1543 on: October 09, 2020, 09:29:07 PM »
The problem I have with some rental cars is that they have got the lights and wipers control stalks the wrong way round compared to what I'm used to and this results in an intention to indicate to turn results in the wipers operating, or vice-versa.

So much is standardised on different manufacturers cars now, I cannot understand why they cannot agree on which side the stalkers should be  :(  . Even different Japanese manufacturers put them on different sides.  ::)

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6366
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1544 on: October 09, 2020, 10:35:53 PM »
It's 30 years since I have driven a vehicle with the stalks opposite to what is on the Jazz.

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top