Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 91654 times)

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1170 on: June 04, 2019, 04:05:11 PM »


If it settled at half the EU rate that would equate to 407 million cars in China, a figure 47% above the total number of vehicles presently on US roads.

China has a massive demographics problem with older citizens, population has been running on empty since the one child policy introduced about 40 years ago. So a large part of Chinese population either too old to drive or too old to learn to drive ( and many too poor to even think of owning a car ). So do not be surprised if car ownership does not grow much.  Also their double digit economic growth is a thing of the past, only possible when you start from a low base.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 04:19:33 PM by culzean »
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peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1171 on: June 04, 2019, 10:26:59 PM »

richardfrost

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1172 on: June 05, 2019, 08:51:45 AM »
Getting there but the independent review on that page, gives a real world range of 186 miles. Combine that with a ten hour 'fast charge' and you can see why there will still be resistance to this technology for a little while yet.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1173 on: June 05, 2019, 09:35:30 AM »
I agree Richard although the 40kwh Zoe would almost certainly suit my needs as they stand. Still some way to go before they become genuinely mainstream.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1174 on: June 05, 2019, 09:53:54 AM »
Getting there but the independent review on that page, gives a real world range of 186 miles. Combine that with a ten hour 'fast charge' and you can see why there will still be resistance to this technology for a little while yet.
I have to agree, but thousands of motorists, like myself, are never away from home for 186 miles at a time. The furthest I have ever done, during my ownership of the Jazz, is 180 miles, but that was a real exception, going for a run for the sake of going for a run. Obviously with a range limit, I would have trimmed that a little. And my car is always parked at home for AT LEAST 10 hours per night. So for me, we are there!

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1175 on: June 05, 2019, 12:16:17 PM »
Getting there but the independent review on that page, gives a real world range of 186 miles. Combine that with a ten hour 'fast charge' and you can see why there will still be resistance to this technology for a little while yet.
I have to agree, but thousands of motorists, like myself, are never away from home for 186 miles at a time. The furthest I have ever done, during my ownership of the Jazz, is 180 miles, but that was a real exception, going for a run for the sake of going for a run. Obviously with a range limit, I would have trimmed that a little. And my car is always parked at home for AT LEAST 10 hours per night. So for me, we are there!

The frustrating thing for me Jocko is that, in a typical week, a 24kwh Nissan Leaf would do me. Indeed for any UK holidays I would simply hire a petrol car. It's a relatively small number of longer journeys that kybosh it for me. Some friends we see about 5 times a year are a 120 mile round trip away. Some other friends quite literally live in a charge point desert (High Peak in the Peak District) and it's an 80 mile round trip.

It's frustrating because I want to own an EV before my driving days are up.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1176 on: June 05, 2019, 05:05:02 PM »

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1177 on: June 05, 2019, 06:41:48 PM »
The Zoe would happily cope with those trips.

https://www.arnoldclark.com/new-cars/renault/zoe/80kw-dynamique-nav-r110-40kwh-22kwch-5dr-auto/0/ref/blk_zut8mpzy3b595dvx

https://www.whatcar.com/news/renault-zoe-long-term-test-review/n16067

quote from whatcar long term test

Official range 250 miles
Real-world range 160 miles (summer);
130 miles (winter)

So less than 65% range in summer and just over 50% in winter

That 250 mile range must have been on a warm day going round a flat track at steady 50mph with aircon turned off.

ICE car makers make claims for fuel consumption and if they are more than 10% out people complain.
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1178 on: June 09, 2019, 12:53:50 PM »
See the electric bikes at this year's TT made a great impression.
TT Zero standing start lap was Michael Rutter 121.909mph / 18 minutes 34 seconds. Significantly, however, in a straight line Rutter could show exactly how far all-electric technology has come after coming through the Sulby speed traps at 176mph, which is faster than the Supersport bikes from earlier in the day.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1179 on: June 09, 2019, 12:59:05 PM »
See the electric bikes at this year's TT made a great impression.
TT Zero standing start lap was Michael Rutter 121.909mph / 18 minutes 34 seconds. Significantly, however, in a straight line Rutter could show exactly how far all-electric technology has come after coming through the Sulby speed traps at 176mph, which is faster than the Supersport bikes from earlier in the day.

Problem is that TT Zero is only one lap ( 37.5 miles ), where ICE bikes do 6 laps --- range is a problem once again.  Supersport bikes only 600cc as well.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1180 on: June 09, 2019, 01:15:11 PM »
I'll grant you that, but the ICE bikes have to refuel every two laps. The do not do 6 laps on one tankful.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1181 on: June 09, 2019, 02:46:13 PM »
I'll grant you that, but the ICE bikes have to refuel every two laps. The do not do 6 laps on one tankful.

Well when the electric bikes can do six laps with 2 pitstops we may be getting somewhere.... battery bikes still nearly 100 kg heavier than ICE bikes thought.

Maybe need to have much, much, much etc. longer pit stops to allow for recharging - spectators would go to pub during first pit stop and probably stay there !  The bike with fastest charge would then win.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 03:45:44 PM by culzean »
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sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1182 on: June 11, 2019, 09:19:13 AM »
Maybe need to have much, much, much etc. longer pit stops to allow for recharging - spectators would go to pub during first pit stop and probably stay there !  The bike with fastest charge would then win.

Why? Surely they would just swap the battery out, could be made quicker than refuelling a conventional 'bike.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1183 on: June 11, 2019, 10:29:19 AM »
Maybe need to have much, much, much etc. longer pit stops to allow for recharging - spectators would go to pub during first pit stop and probably stay there !  The bike with fastest charge would then win.

Why? Surely they would just swap the battery out, could be made quicker than refuelling a conventional 'bike.

I have seen no feasible plans to have standardised quick change batteries on any other vehicles ( industrial fork lift trucks and milk floats have have them for decades ). Sure they could do it in special situations like motorsport but that is not happening in production vehicles.  I guess it will be a long time before we see it in production vehicles, we still don't have swappable batteries in smart phones, many are that integrated into the phone it takes microsurgery to replace them.

It is not in car makers interest to make older EV batteries up-gradable or to make them quick change because this would mean people would hang onto older models longer and sales would be hit. Many people upgrade their car to a new model for longer range or better performance.  The logistics of having different manufacturers batteries available at all the places they are needed ( motorway services etc) is mind boggling and nobody wants to swap a battery that has been well looked after for one with unknown history.

The 80% figure in vehicle batteries is important because the algorithms that protect the battery don't like the top 20% and bottom 30% of battery to be used when new to protect the battery from damage.  As the battery ages these areas are encroached upon to maintain range in an aging battery, and I believe some vehicles may show zero range at 30% charge remaining but an 'emergency' button will let car continue driving to reach a charging station.. 

https://transportevolved.com/2016/02/16/five-reasons-battery-upgrades-for-electric-cars-arent-usually-offered-and-why-you-shouldnt-expect-one/
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 12:37:35 PM by culzean »
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1184 on: June 11, 2019, 04:54:24 PM »
Sure they could do it in special situations like motorsport
Which is exactly what we are talking about here.

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