Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 137164 times)

TnTkr

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1515 on: September 10, 2020, 08:43:42 AM »
Don't know about the handy acronym. ::)
;D Indeed! That was a lousy attempt to be funny. I work in such sector, which is overly saturated with acronyms, of which no-one can get any idea without the list of acronyms.

richardfrost

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1516 on: September 10, 2020, 09:51:51 AM »
How about Full Electric Clean Keep Off Fossil Fuels.

Handily abbreviates to FECKOFF

richardfrost

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1517 on: September 10, 2020, 09:57:37 AM »
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/09/petrol-and-diesel-cars-could-cost-up-to-1500-more-under-proposals
Right idea but wrong way of implementing it. The surcharge for fossil fuels (if there need to be one) should be based on usage, not initial purchase of the vehicle. Otherwise people will not be incentivised to eventually replace their existing vehicle. So slap more on fuel tax, VED and insurance if you have to. This proposal will just result in an ever ageing and increasingly more polluting fleet of fossil fuel vehicles.

And by the way, BEVs charged from the grid are fossil fuelled to a large degree. Even Drax power station, which burns wood pellets which aren't fossil originated, gets those pellets from the USA where they are then shipped by diesel powered boats and trains to the power plant.

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1518 on: September 11, 2020, 02:10:28 PM »
Actually I think it matters a lot. Compared to hydrogen internal combustion engine, the fuel cell plug-in hybrid electric drive has minimal noice, vibration, it has remarkably better efficiency in converting fuel to electricity and it can improve total efficiency with regenerative deceleration, it has less weight and much less moving parts, need for lubrication and cooling, plus all the benefits of plug-in.

I was writing this rather quickly on a coffee break with my smartphone. Now I'd like to further open the benefits of this HFCPHEV (just invented a handy acronym for Hydrogen Fuel Cell Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle) compared to hydrogen fuelled piston engine and conventional drivetrain. As I see it.

- Electric drive gives nice smooth torque from start to top speed without gear changes.
- Plug-in enables using possibly cheaper mains electricity or even solar electricity directly from the panels without any taxes and third party business profits.
- Better efficiency enables smaller tanks or longer range and reduces operating costs.
- Fuel cells can be placed without limitations of the mechanical driveline, which allows optimizing the internal space.
- Fuel cells require much less volume and weigh less than piston engine with auxiliaries. This enables improved volume and weight efficiency in the car. --> Smaller cars require less space on road and parking.
- With a clean fuel like hydrogen the fuel cells need maintenance next to nothing.
- When production rates increase, fuel cells should be much cheaper than piston engines with all needed auxiliaries.
- Less noise and vibration is good both for the neighborhood and for the passengers.
And I would add that, if combined with a battery, a fuel cell can be sized to suit the average power requirement (plus a margin) rather then the maximum power requirement, as the battery can help meet any demand for extra power (similar to what the Mk. 4 Jazz) plus take advantage of regeneration when accelerating.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/09/petrol-and-diesel-cars-could-cost-up-to-1500-more-under-proposals
Right idea but wrong way of implementing it. The surcharge for fossil fuels (if there need to be one) should be based on usage, not initial purchase of the vehicle. Otherwise people will not be incentivised to eventually replace their existing vehicle. So slap more on fuel tax, VED and insurance if you have to. This proposal will just result in an ever ageing and increasingly more polluting fleet of fossil fuel vehicles.
I totally agree. The strategy should be to encourage less use of fossil fuels by pushing up the cost. Higher fuel costs might also encourage drivers to moderate their speed. Money raised from higher fuel taxes could then be used to subsidise hybrid or battery vans of which there are currently few but, judging by the number of vans on the roads, usually in a hurry, they must represent more than their fair share of emissions. If the government wants a reason to hike the fuel taxes then I would call it the "air quality levy" and whack twice as much on diesel as on petrol.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1519 on: September 14, 2020, 01:22:06 PM »
Like all cars EV's return range figures depending on how they are driven. My last ten top-ups with my Mk1 averaged 60.2 mpg and my average for the past four years is the figure beside my avatar. I bet there are very few Mk1's out there getting near that figure. The same is true for EV's. I'd love to see what sort of range I could manage with my driving style.

I think that's right. My pal gets up to 100 miles on his 24 kwh Leaf in the summer. He spends a lot of his time behind lorries on the motorway but, more generally, adopts a conservative driving style.

Just got back from 3 nights in Pickering, North Yorkshire. At the White Swan Inn where we stayed they had 2 Tesla charge points and one for other EVs with Chademo and/or Type 2 chargers. This was only a small hotel so top marks to them.

From home to Pickering was 115 miles. On the Saturday we did about 35 miles visiting Castle Howard. This whole trip would have been comfortably "doable" in, say, the new Renault Zoe with its 50 kwh battery with one overnight charge.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1520 on: September 18, 2020, 08:58:44 PM »
This explains why batteries are still 'rubber buckets' with inaccuracies  in charging and discharging that can be cumulative, and the battery level indicator can not be seen as a ' fuel gauge' in the sense we are used to with ICE.

https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/inner_workings_of_a_smart_battery
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1521 on: September 19, 2020, 07:35:22 PM »
Auto Express has chosen the Tesla Model 3 as the best Electric car for 2020.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/model-3/104187/tesla-model-3-best-electric-cars

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1522 on: October 01, 2020, 10:15:03 PM »

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1523 on: October 02, 2020, 08:11:43 AM »
West Midlands trialing battery powered ambulances, claimed range just over 100 miles (in BEV speak that means 70 ) and over 4 hours to recharge,  so if someone critically ill and needs to go to a specialist hospital guess what - probably gonna have to call for a good old diesel if hospital is more than about 30 miles.... I wonder if the ambulance has a back-up Honda generator to keep all the life support stuff going when battery goes flat,  and ambulances have to be kept warm as well - where is that power coming from.. Would like to know how much it cost compared to a normal ICE ambulance. Who are the relatives going to sue when the first patient dies, the ambulance maker, the local authority, the health trust or the crew for not keeping the battery charged ?   I would have thought emergency vehicles would be exempt from emission zone regs... after all they are such a small % of journeys.

https://www.commercialfleet.org/news/van-news/2020/10/01/west-midlands-to-trial-vcs-s-new-electric-ambulance

https://www.commercialfleet.org/news/van-news/2020/10/01/west-midlands-to-trial-vcs-s-new-electric-ambulance
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Kremmen

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1524 on: October 02, 2020, 09:01:34 AM »
Tesla ...... hmmm ....

Quote
Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey
Other American brands came out top

ELECTRIC car company Tesla has ranked last for reliability in American survey of more than 87,000 buyers and lessees of new cars.

The J.D. Power US Initial Quality Study, which gauges problems encountered in the first three months of ownership, included Tesla for the first time in 2020. It was separated from the other brands, however, as the Elon Musk-founded firm reportedly wouldn’t allow its customers to be surveyed in 15 of America’s 50 states, meaning that it didn’t meet the study’s ranking eligibility criteria.
Let's be careful out there!

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1525 on: October 02, 2020, 09:18:59 AM »
Tesla ...... hmmm ....

Quote
Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey
Other American brands came out top

ELECTRIC car company Tesla has ranked last for reliability in American survey of more than 87,000 buyers and lessees of new cars.

The J.D. Power US Initial Quality Study, which gauges problems encountered in the first three months of ownership, included Tesla for the first time in 2020. It was separated from the other brands, however, as the Elon Musk-founded firm reportedly wouldn’t allow its customers to be surveyed in 15 of America’s 50 states, meaning that it didn’t meet the study’s ranking eligibility criteria.

Does not surprise me in the least Tesla build quality is pants,  that is what happens when a software guy tries to build cars.  With software they are used to releasing beta versions and then fixing them up with patches as the problems show up,  may not be such a great business model with cars.  My only surprise is that more people have not been killed in Tesla cars - if Ralph Nader was around now he would have a field day with Tesla.
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John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1526 on: October 02, 2020, 09:49:45 AM »
Tesla ...... hmmm ....
Which? is also damning about Tesla's reliability but the problems seem to be with build quality and components such as malfunctioning door handles with the underlying powertrain very reliable. As for software, Tesla delivers updates over-the-air which is a big step ahead of the other manufacturers.

Kremmen

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1527 on: October 02, 2020, 10:50:57 AM »
Updates over the air

I wonder if it's clever enough to only update when the car is stationary, see where I'm coming from :)
Let's be careful out there!

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1528 on: October 02, 2020, 11:20:03 AM »
Updates over the air

I wonder if it's clever enough to only update when the car is stationary, see where I'm coming from :)
A very good point but I think the vehicle knows when it's parked at home in the middle of the night. The update can be downloaded at any time but I assume that it won't get applied unless the vehicle is parked. It might prompt for an OK from the owner - the answer is most likely here somewhere https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/ . I've got a Tesla Powerwall Battery which does its updating during the night - typically takes about 10 minutes during which period it's offline.

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1529 on: October 02, 2020, 11:24:13 AM »
West Midlands trialing battery powered ambulances, claimed range just over 100 miles (in BEV speak that means 70 ) and over 4 hours to recharge,  so if someone critically ill and needs to go to a specialist hospital guess what - probably gonna have to call for a good old diesel if hospital is more than about 30 miles.... I wonder if the ambulance has a back-up Honda generator to keep all the life support stuff going when battery goes flat,  and ambulances have to be kept warm as well - where is that power coming from.
This would seem to me to be another vehicle which could best use a hybrid fuel cell + battery system so it becomes a self-charging hybrid with the option of plug-in when at base. 

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