Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 60876 times)

richardfrost

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Black 2005 1.4 SE

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2945
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1021 on: October 12, 2018, 05:24:19 PM »
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/160094/new-honda-urban-ev-2019-prices-specs-and-release-date
That report is from March. I posted video links then. Personally I don't think it looks any worse than the original 205 or early Golf models, nor indeed my Mk 1 Jazz. What was on show was just the concept car, with its silly big wheels  and blue Honda motif. I will be interested to see what the production model looks like.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4205
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1022 on: October 12, 2018, 08:04:17 PM »
A sobering article about the place of renewables in a reliable, flexible power supply system.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611683/the-25-trillion-reason-we-cant-rely-on-batteries-to-clean-up-the-grid/
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1131
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2016 Blue HR-V SE CVT
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1023 on: October 12, 2018, 09:00:47 PM »
A sobering article about the place of renewables in a reliable, flexible power supply system.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611683/the-25-trillion-reason-we-cant-rely-on-batteries-to-clean-up-the-grid/
Thanks - interesting article.

It would be interesting to see if the electricity demand is seasonal due, for example, air conditioning which logically should be highest when there's plenty of solar energy. People will still want air conditioning when the sun goes down but that could be handled with some thermal ballast which gets cooled in the middle of the day when there's surplus solar power. The signal to do that would be lower midday electricity prices during sunny weather. People would also top up the vehicle batteries at that time.

The problem of carrying energy over between seasons isn't easy to solve. Sometimes I wonder if I should heat up the ground under the lawn during the summer and then use if for a ground source heat pump during the winter.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4205
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1024 on: October 14, 2018, 10:13:27 AM »
People will still want air conditioning when the sun goes down but that could be handled with some thermal ballast which gets cooled in the middle of the day when there's surplus solar power.

When we lived in Sydney a lot of the larger buildings used to do the opposite,  they used surplus nighttime energy to make huge ice blocks and then used them to help the aircon cool the buildings during day.  One thing we did notice about buildings in Australia is that architects had lost the plot.  The older buildings had high ceilings, smaller windows, overhanging roofs (to keep sun off the walls) and ventilation built into ceilings and walls.  The newer buildings had massive areas of glass, no overhanging walls and low ceilings.  The fact is the older buildings did not need aircon and felt cool inside even on the hottest days,  the new buildings needed massive amounts of aircon even in the winter - WTF !
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2945
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1025 on: October 14, 2018, 12:49:29 PM »
I am amazed at how many Tesla Model S cars I see around Edinburgh and the southern edge of Fife. There is hardly a day goes by I don't see at least one, and sometimes several. They are nearly as common as the Jaguar XF around here, a car very similar in appearance. My wife is getting fed up with me saying "Oh there's another Tesla". There is a sales outlet in Edinburgh, which may account for their popularity. I always find a preponderance of unusual cars in an area that has a dealership for them. We used to have a load of TVRs when the dealership was in Dunfermline.

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1131
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2016 Blue HR-V SE CVT
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1026 on: October 14, 2018, 12:58:33 PM »
One thing we did notice about buildings in Australia is that architects had lost the plot.  The older buildings had high ceilings, smaller windows, overhanging roofs (to keep sun off the walls) and ventilation built into ceilings and walls.  The newer buildings had massive areas of glass, no overhanging walls and low ceilings.  The fact is the older buildings did not need aircon and felt cool inside even on the hottest days,  the new buildings needed massive amounts of aircon even in the winter - WTF !
The first thing I learned when working in the tropics is that windows should only be on the N & S facing walls with sufficient roof overhang or other screening to provide shading. Rooms with windows facing E and W got cooked in either the morning or the afternoon. If the buildings were low then the fix was to plant some trees to provide the shading.
 
This became something I also considered when last house-buying in UK as the house I was moving from had some big west-facing windows resulting in rooms cooking during hot weather.

However, architects tend to create what looks nice and developers are interested in what fits the site without any regard for orientation.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2945
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1027 on: October 17, 2018, 10:29:15 AM »
Jaguar are seemingly thinking of going all electric.
It is part of the drive to reduce the "Brand" emission levels for themselves and Land Rover.
Interesting short video below.

SteveOne

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Country: 00
  • My Honda: 2014 Jazz ES+ CVT
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1028 on: October 18, 2018, 10:44:24 AM »
69 pages and no mention of FCEVs (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles) ?
I think this would solve many of the problems - if we coud figure out how to produce them.  They are refuelled similar to a petrol/diesel, so nice and quick.  The taxman can get in on the act. The H2 can be produced by the filling station as and when the electric grid can supply the load. People without driveway parking or garages ( i.e. most car users) can use the technology.
I don't know how reliable the fuel cells are ? or how long they last - but they must be better than producing all those batteries. I think FCEVs are significantly lighter than BEVs - comparable to current gasoline powered cars.
I know the filling stations can be expensive - but would that still be true if they were as common as petrol/diesel/LPG outlets ?

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4205
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1029 on: October 18, 2018, 05:58:09 PM »
69 pages and no mention of FCEVs (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles) ?
I think this would solve many of the problems - if we coud figure out how to produce them.  They are refuelled similar to a petrol/diesel, so nice and quick.  The taxman can get in on the act. The H2 can be produced by the filling station as and when the electric grid can supply the load. People without driveway parking or garages ( i.e. most car users) can use the technology.
I don't know how reliable the fuel cells are ? or how long they last - but they must be better than producing all those batteries. I think FCEVs are significantly lighter than BEVs - comparable to current gasoline powered cars.
I know the filling stations can be expensive - but would that still be true if they were as common as petrol/diesel/LPG outlets ?

By the time you have used electricity that could be used to charge a BEV directly to make hydrogen (not very efficient) and then have the efficiency (they are pretty efficient but produce a lot of waste heat and run at very high temp) of the fuel cell you have probably not used energy wisely.  Add to that the problem of storing Hydrogen at high pressure at the filling station and  in a vehicle it becomes a bit of a nonsense.   They are lighter than a BEV though,  but fuel cell vehicles have been around for a long time and never caught on ( maybe caught fire though).   Sales of BEV actually peaked in mid 2017 and have been dropping since,  but so have sales of normal vehicles.

The inability for governments to levy tax on electricity used to charge vehicles will mean that GPS tracking and road pricing is inevitable ( at least UK may have their own GPS system by then and not the EU one - they have kicked out a major contributor and their main contractor,  suddenly UK have become 'the enemy' and are not to be trusted LOL).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2945
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1030 on: October 18, 2018, 06:00:52 PM »
Funny you should have posted about FCEVs, and at the time you did. I found out about this company just this morning, was fascinated by the technology and their business plan, and was about to post link at 10:30 this morning. However I ran out of time for my chauffeuring duties, so decided to leave it until later.
Riversimple: UK based Hydrogen Fuel Cell Eco Car Company

I have looked at Hydrogen Fuel Cells for vehicles. There is even a Hydrogen Filling Station near by!

I posted a bit on the Electric Aircraft thread, about Loganair planning to to modify an aircraft, powered by electricity, for use in the Orkney islands. I imaging it will be Hydrogen powered, as Orkney has a glut of cheap Hydrogen from the Tidal generation trials. And for an aircraft, HFC makes a lot of sense.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2945
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1031 on: October 18, 2018, 06:06:39 PM »
UK may have their own GPS system by then and not the EU one
GPS in the UK is currently owned and operated by the US

From the OS web site: GPS (Global Positioning System) is a satellite-based positioning and navigation system owned and operated by the US Department of Defense. Access is free for all users and the service is available 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. GPS is an all weather system that works anywhere in the world. GPS can give an instantaneous, real-time position to within approximately 10m using a single handheld receiver.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2945
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1032 on: October 18, 2018, 06:11:19 PM »
Add to that the problem of storing Hydrogen at high pressure at the filling station and  in a vehicle it becomes a bit of a nonsense.
Compressed gas is currently stored by industry, all over the UK, and daily transported by trucks, vans and cars, up and down our road system, so I don't think that is a valid reason for not having FCEVs!

Hydrogen Filling Station.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 06:16:06 PM by Jocko »

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4205
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1033 on: October 18, 2018, 06:42:15 PM »
UK may have their own GPS system by then and not the EU one
GPS in the UK is currently owned and operated by the US

From the OS web site: GPS (Global Positioning System) is a satellite-based positioning and navigation system owned and operated by the US Department of Defense. Access is free for all users and the service is available 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. GPS is an all weather system that works anywhere in the world. GPS can give an instantaneous, real-time position to within approximately 10m using a single handheld receiver.

Well aware that we use American satellites at present but EU has plans for their own system that we are already involved in and have contributed well over a billion Euro to, but EU then said UK could no longer access the more secret parts after B..X.T - so UK is looking at building their own system, but Americans say we are more than welcome to continue using their infrastructure, at least we found our who our real friends are  :o
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4205
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1034 on: October 18, 2018, 07:07:44 PM »
Add to that the problem of storing Hydrogen at high pressure at the filling station and  in a vehicle it becomes a bit of a nonsense.
Compressed gas is currently stored by industry, all over the UK, and daily transported by trucks, vans and cars, up and down our road system, so I don't think that is a valid reason for not having FCEVs!


Hydrogen fuel cell cars have been around for a long time, most motor manufacturers have produced concept cars, and some even leased them to people ( would not sell them ) but they have never been more than a testbed.  Lots more ways of storing hydrogen than as a pressurised gas though https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage
but fuel cells run incredibly hot and hydrogen tanks on vehicles could easily explode - there is also energy required to compress hydrogen, normally 10% of the energy contained in the hydrogen.  Specific energy of hydrogen is also a lot less than hydrocarbons, ( as is pretty much everything except plutonium ).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top