Author Topic: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often  (Read 26738 times)

Skyrider

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #225 on: January 13, 2019, 03:34:59 PM »
Slick gadgets are OK on cars but they should not make drivers lazy to the basic checks ( I still look over my right shoulder as well before changing lanes or joining a motorway even though I have checked the mirrors).

Totally agree, I have found it surprising how a full sized HGV can disappear into a blind spot and having driven HGVs how easily a car can do the same. On approaching an HGV a quick number plate check can indicate which side the driver is on and where his blind spots are.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 07:41:58 PM by Skyrider »

mikebore

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #226 on: January 14, 2019, 01:10:57 PM »
Question about the calibration process:

The manual describes the process quite clearly and I have just checked all the pressures and done the "initialisation", and got the "Completed" message.

BUT I am not going to be driving the car for 24 hours. I believe the calibration process includes driving the car for 30 minutes. Is the 30 minutes driving meant to be immediately after the initialisation? or will it do it when I start driving tomorrow?

Think I might redo the initialisation before setting off tomorrow. Don't really want a warning on the M1.

Right...I did redo the initialisation immediately before setting off this morning.

24 minutes later, 10 miles up the M1, got a tyre pressure warning!

Stopped at next services and checked pressures (in case I really had had a second nail) but all four wheels exactly 2 psi higher than when I set them cold yesterday.

So re-initialised again.

29 minutes later....another warning.

This time I ignored it and carried on home.

My Provisional conclusions:

1. A brand new tyre takes more than 53 (24+29) minutes (about 40 miles) to stabilise its rolling radius.

or

2. The combination of one different brand new tyre with three 37,000 mile ones is outside the capability of the TPMS.

or

3. The TPMS is unreliable and does not always initialise and calibrate properly.


In support of no 1. is that many of the false warning reports, including my own, are with the car when very new. Although of course on a brand new car all four tyres are new so the running in differences would be less than my case with one brand new tyre.

No 3 could be true in addition to 1 or 2.

The fact that my system behaved perfectly for more than two years, and then gave a correct warning, seems to imply that once the calibration has worked and the tyres have run-in, it is trustworthy and useful.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 01:35:08 PM by mikebore »

ColinB

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #227 on: January 14, 2019, 02:46:41 PM »
With regard to possibility #2, you might like to have another look at a notice my local dealer has on permanent display, which you actually re-posted for me (because I couldn’t get the format right !):
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8667.msg61218#msg61218
It seems bizarre that the system seems to require tyres to be replaced as a matched pair, but you seem to be proving that that is indeed the case.

mikebore

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #228 on: January 14, 2019, 02:58:07 PM »
With regard to possibility #2, you might like to have another look at a notice my local dealer has on permanent display, which you actually re-posted for me (because I couldn’t get the format right !):
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8667.msg61218#msg61218
It seems bizarre that the system seems to require tyres to be replaced as a matched pair, but you seem to be proving that that is indeed the case.

Thanks Colin....I had completely forgotten that!
Seems to confirm that no 2 is the culprit, possibly aided and abetted by no 3.

peteo48

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #229 on: January 14, 2019, 03:03:24 PM »
I think my issue is that the trust goes when the system gives false alarms so I would argue that the system isn't trustworthy. In short, if the alarm goes off on my car again, I will be making an assumption, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that it's a false alarm (although I will, of course, check the pressures as soon as possible to be on the safe side).

I still have the ongoing arrangement with our local dealer that I will take the car in with the alarm still showing if I do get another false alarm - touch wood I haven't had one since the first 3.

mikebore

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #230 on: January 14, 2019, 03:29:31 PM »
As I said earlier, once the system is setup and stable I definitely trust it.

Once I have sorted this mismatched tyre out I will definitely respond to future alerts.

Changing both tyres on an axle is fine if due to wear, but rather galling to have to buy two new tyres for a shoulder nail in one.

culzean

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #231 on: January 14, 2019, 05:28:19 PM »
Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

mikebore

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #232 on: January 14, 2019, 05:37:53 PM »
Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.

Not sure who that is replying to?  Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.

culzean

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #233 on: January 14, 2019, 05:59:35 PM »
Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.

Not sure who that is replying to?  Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.

I mean driving at 70mph for a long period after initializing the system, the new calibration happens after you initialize the TPMS by wiping out previous data ( the initialization can only happen with engine stopped and handbrake on ). The calibration happens while you are driving as it can only happen when wheels are rotating. ( to initialize the TPMS the handbrake needs to be on).

I think the choice of terminology on the system leaves something to be desired as it says calibration is complete as soon as you press the button but all you have done is wiped previous data and 'initialised' the system to accept new data, and the system mutes the alarm until it is happy with new data and 'calibrated' itself again , but calibration is not complete until you have driven a few miles above 25mph ( but I am not sure that a steady 70+ is ideal hence my comment ).
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 06:09:12 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

mikebore

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #234 on: January 14, 2019, 06:12:23 PM »
Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.

Not sure who that is replying to?  Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.

I mean driving at 70mph for a long period after initializing the system, the calibration happens after you initialize the TPMS. The calibration happens while you are driving as it can only happen when wheels are rotating. ( to initialize the TPMS the handbrake needs to be on).

Ah gotcha! You could be right...I just looked at the manual again and see:

"• The calibration process requires approximately 30 minutes of cumulative driving at speeds between 40–100 km/h (25–62 mph)."

The first calibration today had about 15 minutes before getting onto the M25/M1 and the second was all M1, but there is a lot of 50 mph limit, though can't now recall whether that was in the calibration period. The M25 was quite slow so not much at 70.

Any way I have now initialised it again and will not be doing any motorway for a while so will see what happens.

mikebore

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #235 on: January 14, 2019, 06:18:17 PM »
Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.

Not sure who that is replying to?  Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.

I think the choice of terminology on the system leaves something to be desired as it says calibration is complete as soon as you press the button but all you have done is wiped previous data and 'initialised' the system to accept new data, and the system mutes the alarm until it is happy with new data and 'calibrated' itself again , but calibration is not complete until you have driven a few miles above 25mph ( but I am not sure that a steady 70+ is ideal hence my comment ).

As one who has just confused initialisation with calibration, I agree. But the "Completed" message only appears in the info window after selecting "initialise".....there is no option to "calibrate".

Downsizer

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #236 on: January 14, 2019, 06:31:10 PM »
Re Mikebore's 3 options above, I think option 1 (new tyres taking time to bed in) is definitely one factor.  Option 2 (an un-matched pair of tyres) could also be relevant if the system cannot handle a big difference in rolling diameter.  If so, the change of make is not relevant, but putting a new tyre with an old one worn to 3 mm is a problem.  I don't think the system is unreliable, but any alarm needs to be interpreted in context.

culzean

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #237 on: January 14, 2019, 07:40:31 PM »
Would be nice if a smiley tyre popped up to show system was happy with new calibration or a sad tyre if it is not happy, so that you could 're-do  the exercise rather than just wandering off and telling you nothing.

By 'cumulative' driving they must mean that it does not have to be done in one trip and the system will choose the bits it can make use of / is happy with from the rest.

It may take snapshots at several speeds for its final data.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 08:01:48 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #238 on: January 15, 2019, 10:37:32 AM »
Would be nice if a smiley tyre popped up to show system was happy with new calibration or a sad tyre if it is not happy, so that you could 're-do  the exercise rather than just wandering off and telling you nothing.

By 'cumulative' driving they must mean that it does not have to be done in one trip and the system will choose the bits it can make use of / is happy with from the rest.

It may take snapshots at several speeds for its final data.

That would be useful. Otherwise you are in the dark as to whether calibration has been successful.

Kenneve

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Re: Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often
« Reply #239 on: January 15, 2019, 11:22:56 AM »
In my experience the initialising/calibration has to be done on relatively straight roads, ie dual carriageways/motorways
If you try to do it on winding roads or around many corners, then the system just cannot cope with the resulting variations in wheel speed and as a result, the calibration is just not accurate enough, to avoid the false alarms.
Actual road speed during the process does not seem to matter.

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