Author Topic: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz  (Read 14006 times)

Skyrider

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2016, 08:34:00 AM »
Exactly, two engine modes to be used as you choose. In a manual car of course. :-)

Edit

If you floor it at low speed with a CVT does it take a second or so to respond?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 08:39:26 AM by Deeps »

andruec

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2016, 09:00:51 AM »
If you floor it at low speed with a CVT does it take a second or so to respond?
No. A couple of tenths of a second typically.

It was only ever an occasional refusal to respond the accelerator - mostly when pulling away from a roundabout which at one point made me wonder if it was traction control. These days it's fine so I think I've just learnt how to use the accelerator pedal better.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 09:04:29 AM by andruec »

Skyrider

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2016, 09:08:25 AM »
That was my problem after 30 odd years of diesel driving. I also still hesitate for a couple of seconds between switching on and starting the engine, I must remember no glow plugs. :-)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 12:59:18 PM by Deeps »

culzean

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2016, 09:35:47 AM »
I have a Mk2 and my Uncle who got me into Hondas had a Mk2 for 3 years. Last September he bought a Mk3 and has recently changed it for a Mini Countryman 1.6, as he just couldn't get on with it.

Hope your uncle had a good deal from Mini dealer and got a good pair of walking shoes, and umbrella and AA membership thrown in.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2016, 03:41:11 PM »
It is difficult to "ragg" a vetc engine, they are designed for high revs. Something that seems to be lost on many drivers.

I am with 'Deeps' on this. The vtec engine is whatever you want it to be, a docile very flexible engine happy at low revs or a snappy revving beast giving adequate performance. all this is courtesy of the variable valve timing and engine management system.
I think that the CVT version is the most pleasing to drive as its response to wide throttle openings is almost instantaneous and will easily reach 6K revs on full throttle and using the 'S' mode to preempt overtaking moves will take the engine to 6.5K ( the start of the red line). Doing this will not cause the engine to explode, Honda run their engines on test beds at max revs for hours. Yes the engine gets noisy but not for long as the gear changes up'. The effect on fuel consumption is negligible, you are not driving like this all the time.
If you want a low revving engine then buy a diesel.

Vic.

These are fair points but I suspect the more instant power delivery of a turbo is indeed spoiling people as you suggest. This is why the Jazz draws adverse comments for its lack of responsiveness. As I say, this is not an issue for me but may be an Achilles heel for the car in terms of attracting a wider customer base. Hence the talk of a 1 litre turbo.

culzean

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2016, 04:45:46 PM »
It is difficult to "ragg" a vetc engine, they are designed for high revs. Something that seems to be lost on many drivers.

I am with 'Deeps' on this. The vtec engine is whatever you want it to be, a docile very flexible engine happy at low revs or a snappy revving beast giving adequate performance. all this is courtesy of the variable valve timing and engine management system.
I think that the CVT version is the most pleasing to drive as its response to wide throttle openings is almost instantaneous and will easily reach 6K revs on full throttle and using the 'S' mode to preempt overtaking moves will take the engine to 6.5K ( the start of the red line). Doing this will not cause the engine to explode, Honda run their engines on test beds at max revs for hours. Yes the engine gets noisy but not for long as the gear changes up'. The effect on fuel consumption is negligible, you are not driving like this all the time.
If you want a low revving engine then buy a diesel.

Vic.



When doing tests on their engine designs Honda are famous for running their engines flat out for 24hrs, if anything breaks they improve it and run it until they have a product that will run for 24hrs straight - we get the benefit of the reliability this produces and then you get Bimbo testers from the Guardian et al  scared to rev over 2K.

100 ponies is plenty for a car the size of a Jazz,  look at the S2000,  240 ponies / 9000 revs and  as reliable as a Swiss watch.

Diesels are for lorries and tractors,  but comparing turbo Diesels with NA petrol is not helpful.  Incidentally using a Turbo on a petrol engine (and a diesel) puts more 'charge' into the cylinder - that is more air and more petrol which is compressed more and you get a bigger bang, more torque so can rev lower to get same power.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Ocky

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2016, 07:00:50 PM »
I have a Mk2 and my Uncle who got me into Hondas had a Mk2 for 3 years. Last September he bought a Mk3 and has recently changed it for a Mini Countryman 1.6, as he just couldn't get on with it.

Hope your uncle had a good deal from Mini dealer and got a good pair of walking shoes, and umbrella and AA membership thrown in.

 ;)

IMO Mini's are overpriced but he's had them before and it suits his needs

VicW

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2016, 07:19:33 PM »

These are fair points but I suspect the more instant power delivery of a turbo is indeed spoiling people as you suggest.
[/quote]

Turbo design has come on in leaps and bounds. The early ones were notorious for turbo lag when nothing happened below about 3K revs which didn't matter on the big diesel trucks they were originally designed for. Now the lag is virtually non existent which is presumably one of the reasons why small turbo assisted engines are becoming the norm or on bigger engines multiple turbos are quite common

Vic.

CATech

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2018, 10:02:29 AM »
....... it's almost impossible to get the engine to rev at or over 4000rpm.

[/quote]Agreed. You just floor the accelerator and it'll jump up there. But..why would anyone want to do that more often than once in a blue moon?
[/quote]

I'd rather keep the cyclinder compression / big ends / little ends / my life / whatever else... for a bit longer.

Remember the tortoise and the hare?

culzean

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2018, 04:32:45 PM »
....... it's almost impossible to get the engine to rev at or over 4000rpm.

Agreed. You just floor the accelerator and it'll jump up there. But..why would anyone want to do that more often than once in a blue moon?
[/quote]

I'd rather keep the cyclinder compression / big ends / little ends / my life / whatever else... for a bit longer.

Remember the tortoise and the hare?
[/quote]

Honda engines love to rev and all mine have regularly hit the rev limiter (manual boxes though) - and they have all done big mileages without a problem, it probably does the engine more harm if it never goes above 3K (CAT and EGR will suffer for sure).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

zzaj

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2018, 05:00:12 PM »
"Combined fuel consumption 57 mpg"

Has anyone achieved that?

Jocko

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mikebore

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2018, 05:13:08 PM »
"Combined fuel consumption 57 mpg"

Has anyone achieved that?
http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2017?engineconfig_id=&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=5

Those look very low. I'm sure folk here have reported much better.

Can you filter on Fuelly to show 2016 and 2017 Mk3 Jazzes? Presumably my 2016 would show up then?


Jocko

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2018, 05:37:38 PM »
Can you filter on Fuelly to show 2016 and 2017 Mk3 Jazzes? Presumably my 2016 would show up then?
http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2016

mikebore

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Re: Unfavourable Review of new Jazz
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2018, 05:48:14 PM »
Can you filter on Fuelly to show 2016 and 2017 Mk3 Jazzes? Presumably my 2016 would show up then?
http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/jazz/2016

Thanks....makes much more sense! I am plumb on the average (or should it median).


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