Author Topic: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power  (Read 21502 times)

jazzaro

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2016, 04:04:15 PM »

 No CVT hybrid
Yes, here we have a dual clutch 7 speed gearbox (made by Schaeffler, Germany) mated with a high power electric motor made by Honda
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1st gear is electric only?
No, 1st gear is a traditional gear but the system prefer to start moving the car using the electric motor. But it can use also the 1st gear.
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Full EV mode
Yes, the car can run in full EV mode, even if slowly and for a short path.
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Electric drives odd gears while petrol is in all gears?
No, electric motor can help petrol engine in all gears
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The petrol engine is bump started
No, it is started by the electric motor or, in emergency mode, by a traditional starter motor
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Lithium instead of NiMH batteries
Yes
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No engine braking - purely regenerative plus discs
I don't know
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Hopefully it would mate to the 1L 3 cylinder turbo unit as well for a lighter, smaller, punchier, torque~ier unit. 
This won't happen: usually, all Hybrid car we can see are a mating between an electric motor and an Atkinson Cicle petrol engine: Atkinsons are the best in fuel economy, but they lack in torque and power, so both Toyota than Honda couple this engines with an electric motor gaining the desidered boost.
Mating the 1.0T with the Hybrid I-DCD would give a lot of power and boost, but poor fuel economy.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 04:56:26 PM by jazzaro »

John Ratsey

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2016, 05:29:25 PM »
I've been reading up on the Kia Niro https://www.kia.co.uk/new-cars/range/mid-sized-cars/niro.aspx as an example of a brand new hybrid design and has a 1.6 litre Atkinson cycle engine + 40HP electric motor. However, the vehicle is a size bigger than the Jazz as well as being more expensive but, because the battery is under the back seat, it can still take a spare wheel. Overall, it's more an equivalent to the HRV (Vezel) hybrid of which I have seen plenty in Sri Lanka but hasn't come to the UK.

culzean

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2016, 09:38:18 AM »
This article puts the cat well and truly among the pigeons on small engines with turbo and emissions

 http://www.caradvice.com.au/490266/european-car-makers-to-upsize-engines-to-meet-real-world-emissions-tests-report/?source=plista
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

andruec

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Skyrider

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2016, 02:52:43 PM »
I am sure I have mentioned the free lunch recently, also if you use the power you use the fuel. So glad I wasn't delusional.

culzean

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2016, 05:24:25 PM »
I am sure I have mentioned the free lunch recently, also if you use the power you use the fuel. So glad I wasn't delusional.

Seems to me it is the European car industry that is delusional -  they got it soooh badly wrong again,  notice how Japs were slow to go down small engine / turbo route ?   Just another sign that the Japanese are the ones to trust with engine technology (they were pushed down the smaller engine route by wild European claims wooing the buyers, just like they reluctantly  went down the diesel route to woo back buyers dazzled by European makers claims ) .  I hope the PHEV technology will be the next to be 'outed' with their fantastical MPG claims of 135mpg and less than 40grams carbon (run on electric for less than 20 miles,  then 30mpg or less - what kind of test regime do they use to get 135mpg out of that ?) seems these favourable test regimes are handed by car makers to legislators who then use them to make laws - could only happen in Europe - all smoke and mirrors.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150727/OEM06/307279956/at-last-honda-and-toyota-prepare-for-turbo-charge

Think I'll hang onto my 1.8VTEC Civic for a while longer - can get pretty good MPG (high 40's) if you drive it properly and it is a superb engine.  Same goes for my wifes MK2 1.4Si.

Quote below from another source......... :-X

Modern engines (especially 3-cylinder turbocharged ones) are not designed for the real world; they’re designed for the NEDC and similar Japanese and American test cycles, but a change is on the way. The Volkswagen emission debacle has put a lot of pressure on the industry to adopt a more realistic on-the-road test cycle.

The European Union is introducing new-model on-the-road testing for NOX pollution next year, and for fuel consumption and CO2 emissions 2 years later. This announcement has forced most automotive engineers to admit that their cars emit far more pollutants on the road than on a NEDC dynamometer test.

The surprising consequence is that some manufacturers are having second thoughts about extreme downsizing and fitting turbos. At the recent Paris motor show Thomas Weber, head of research and development at Mercedes, said: “It becomes apparent that a small engine is not an advantage. That’s why we didn’t jump on the three-cylinder engine trend.”

What's more, Reuters reports that the new test will effectively kill the development of small turbocharged engines due to the fuel consumption penalty (for petrol engines) and NO X penalty (for diesel engines) when driven at real-world speeds.

The agency quotes sources that suggest "Renault, General Motors and VW are preparing to enlarge or scrap some of their best-selling small car engines over the next three years" and "other manufacturers are expected to follow".

"The tougher tests may kill turbodiesel engines smaller than 1.5-litres and (petrol motors) below about 1.2-litres, analysts predict", the report adds.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 08:31:15 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

iani71

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2017, 05:21:26 PM »
I am currently in the market for the new Jazz. I spoke to a dealer about the new engine (1.0 turbo) that is fitted in the Civic. He is expecting a Jazz update with the 1.0 turbo engine between December 2017 and January 2018. Won't have the 128bhp though. It would be slightly de-tuned for fuel efficiency.

Skyrider

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2017, 08:11:32 PM »
It would be slightly de-tuned for fuel efficiency.

It would need to be, have you checked the real world fuel consumption of small turbo engines? If you use the power, and you will, it will use the  fuel to provide it.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 08:22:47 PM by Deeps »

John Ratsey

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2017, 03:42:11 PM »
Restricting the engine to around 100HP but with better low end torque than the current engine would provide a noticeable performance improvement. Having 3 cylinders instead of 4 reduces internal friction and a smaller block should improve the engine warm-up from a cold start (a serious fuel guzzler - the new Kia Niro includes heat recovery from the exhaust to help address this).

The fuel consumption and CO2 figures for the 1L 2017 Civic are better than for the Mk 3 Jazz but some of this may be attributable to better aerodynamics (Civic vs Jazz) rather than improved engine efficiency.

Downsizer

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2017, 06:13:13 PM »
The fuel consumption and CO2 figures for the 1L 2017 Civic are better than for the Mk 3 Jazz but some of this may be attributable to better aerodynamics (Civic vs Jazz) rather than improved engine efficiency.
Are these comparisons real world driving or official test cycles?  It's suggested that the discrepancy between the two is greater with the small turbo engines than with normally aspirated engines, perhaps because as Deeps suggests, it's hard to restrain the right foot!

John Ratsey

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2017, 08:22:31 AM »
Are these comparisons real world driving or official test cycles?  It's suggested that the discrepancy between the two is greater with the small turbo engines than with normally aspirated engines, perhaps because as Deeps suggests, it's hard to restrain the right foot!
My comments are based on some technical reasons why the engines should be more efficient plus the official test data which, I agree, have to be interpreted with caution. Honest John's realmpg doesn't currently have user data for the new Civic. Whether Honda also take advantage of the potential power to offer a Jazz Type R with a less downrated engine remains to be seen.

However, there's also the question of how the efficiency of a 1L turbo will compare with the Atkinson cycle part of the current engine (or can Atkinson cycle and turbo co-exist?). For many drivers, if the 1L turbo provides the low end torque absent from the current engine without worsening actual fuel economy then it will be a significant improvement.

PS: Some useful discussion of the topic at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/9241054/Fuel-economy-why-your-car-wont-match-the-official-mpg.html.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 10:09:09 AM by John Ratsey »

Downsizer

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2017, 12:05:22 PM »
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 12:39:17 PM by Downsizer »

andruec

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2017, 10:57:52 AM »
PS: Some useful discussion of the topic at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/9241054/Fuel-economy-why-your-car-wont-match-the-official-mpg.html.
Personally I blame it on drivers having poor acceleration sense and failing to correctly anticipate traffic flow. Anyone who uses their brakes to do anything other than bring their vehicle to a complete halt falls into that category in my opinion. I almost never use my brakes for adjusting my speed. And I don't come to a complete stop very often. I have matched manufacturer figures for fuel consumption in every vehicle I have owned as far back as I can remember.

The tests are only inaccurate because they fail to reflect the relatively poor standard of vehicle control prevalent on our roads.

So I counteract your link with this one ;)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 11:00:17 AM by andruec »

Jocko

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2017, 12:11:10 PM »
I pride myself in seldom using my brakes, and I am rewarded by excellent fuel consumption. Most of my driving is town driving, albeit not a busy city (though I do a bit of that as well) and I still achieve 52 mpg.

Skyrider

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Re: Honda Jazz likely to get new 1.0-litre turbo petrol power
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2017, 01:05:21 PM »
Accelerator control is as important as clutch control, few seem to realise it though. I wasn't taught it until I did my HGV training. That does not mean you have to drive like a fuel conservation extremist. The Jazz engine is just as powerful as the tiny turbos it just produces its power and torque at higher revs, which seems to terrify some drivers.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 01:27:49 PM by Deeps »

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