I-Shift or I sh*t?

[guest983]

I-Shift or I sh*t? 
Lots of debate - or at least, a fair amount of probably ill-informed opinion - about the new "automatic" gearbox on the latest (European) incarnation of the Jazz. Let's get through the FACTS first.

An inherent problem with the Internal Combustion Engine as we know it is that it can only produce economical/worthwhile output power over a relatively narrow range of speeds. But we expect our cars to cover everything for 0 - 80 (sorry, officer!) MPH. so the drive chain between the engine and the road needs to be able to overcome this limitation, by adjusting drive ratios. I guess there are now a total of FOUR mainstream ways of matching the engine output to the road.

Manual
The "conventional" solution is a a gearbox with a number (4 to 6 these days) of fixed ratio gears, and some form of connection/disconnection (the clutch!) to blend between the road speed and engine revs while changing gears. Provided the engineer has done his job, the smoothness of progression (or otherwise) up through the gears is down to the competency (or otherwise) of the idiot in the driving seat.

This particular idiot has driven a manual Jazz, and found the gear stick throw pleasantly short and precise, and the clutch light. Like any manual arrangement, If you can be bothered to match revs during gear changes (how many people bother?) then perfectly smooth and swift progress is possible.

Conventional Automatic
For those - and I include myself here - who are either unable, unwilling, or simply can't be @rsed with all of the gearstick-waving and clutch prodding, the common automatic gearbox offers an answer. Put it in "D" and press the go pedal. When compared to a manual gearbox, however, Automatics with their epi-cyclic gears and fluid torque converters are heavier, sap valuable horsepower (and so fuel) and cost more to manufacture.

Even though great strides have been made with the introduction of electronics and new materials, you simply wont find "conventional" autos on small-engined cars these days, for these reasons (OK, there IS a Jazz/Fit in the USA with a conventional auto box, but it comes with a 1.5L engine, and sells into a market less bothered just now about CO2 emissions and MPG than Europe).


Constantly Variable Transmission (CVT)
Honda's (and others') earlier answer to the dream of effort-free motoring in smaller cars has been the CVT drive. Unlike either option discussed so far, this is stepless in that the gearbox isn't restricted to one of a number of fixed ratios. This means that, once it is engaged there is no need for the mechanism to change any form of internal gearing, and it can transmit power smoothly and progressively from engine to road over a wide range of road speeds.

Performance isn't brilliant, but then it requires absolutely no skills on behalf of the driver, who is merely required to press one pedal to go faster and one to go slower. Which is just fine for many.

A rather odd effect, though, is the engined noise. The engine tends to rev higher than might be the case in a conventional gearbox, and it's note gives little clue as to the speed of the vehicle. This can be quite unnerving at first - it almost sounds like you are "riding the clutch" (although you are not, as there isn't a clutch pedal!)

I-Shift "Automatic Manual"
So how about something with the performance and economy of a manual gearbox/clutch, but the convenience of an automatic system? This, Ladies in Gentlemen, is what Honda have sought to bring us with the I-Shift.  It is, quite simply, a conventional six-speed gearbox and clutch (just the ONE, I think, not two). BUT there is no conventional manual gearstick or clutch pedal - a computer does all that stuff for you.

Now, the first time you drive it, it is a little unnerving. As the driver, you don't have to take any action, and the car will drop the engine revs a tad, declutch, change gear, rev the engine a little and then reengage the clutch for you all by itself. Yes, there is a slight jolt in the lower gears, which one or two misguided types have thought was the system applying the brakes for some reason (it is not!). The jolt is more noticeable if you attempt a more spirited departure.

As a passenger, it feels exactly like a fairly good manual gear change in a manual car. As a driver, you can influence the process by backing off the accelerator when you are ready to change gear, or take control manually through the steering wheel "paddle" switches. I think these are a bit of a gimmick and will in practice have little real use.

So, CVT or I-Shift?
Well, it's a bit academic, really; if you want a new Jazz, Honda have already made up their own mind for you!

True, the progression up through the gears of the I-Shift is not as smooth as a CVT, but it does feel less fraught, somehow. BUT (and here is the bit people miss), THE I-SHIFT IS NOT A CVT and the two do handle differently. If you step out of a CVT and into an I-shift expecting the SAME experience, you WILL be disappointed.  Take an I-Shift for a PROPER test drive (which any serious Honda salesman should be prepared to let you do), keep one eye on the MPG meter and you'll begin to see the point.

I have driven the manual Jazz, had a quick go in an earlier CVT just to get the idea, and then test driven the I-Shift. Result? I bought the I-Shift! It does the job i bought it for admirably, and I wouldn't change it. (erm, pun not intended, there

Don't make your mind up either way on what others (or I!) have told you you should think - go and try the different gearboxes for over 10-20 miles for yourself, and then decide.


Other stuff
The rest of the car is a fabulous package, by the way, but then others have covered all that ground before.

I never thought about it before, but the standard single-CD player is already out of date, due simply to the inclusion of a USB port, which is a far more elegant solution (if you already have a home PC, at least). Bung 20 or so CD's onto a single cheap USB memory stick and save the clutter of CD's and jewel cases in the car.

We have "scaled down" from a Scenic Automatic, but the Jazz hardly feels any less roomy. My first Honda, and so far I am impressed by the quality and overall "togetherness" of the car. I can't really call it a criticism, but a tick over, the engine is so damn quiet, you think you've stalled it. But wait a minute! It's an I-Shift - so I can't have done!

Larry

[nowster]

I never thought about it before, but the standard single-CD player is already out of date, due simply to the inclusion of a USB port, which is a far more elegant solution (if you already have a home PC, at least).

Don't forget that the CD player also plays MP3-CDs, too.

[RichardA]

...you simply wont find "conventional" autos on small-engined cars these days, for these reasons (OK, there IS a Jazz/Fit in the USA with a conventional auto box, but it comes with a 1.5L engine, and sells into a market less bothered just now about CO2 emissions and MPG than Europe).

I think the latest Fiesta still uses the torque-converter auto 'box, as does (I think) the soon-to-be replaced VW Polo, although the next one will be offered with VW's DSG.

Constantly Variable Transmission (CVT)
.......A rather odd effect, though, is the engined noise. The engine tends to rev higher than might be the case in a conventional gearbox, and it's note gives little clue as to the speed of the vehicle. This can be quite unnerving at first - it almost sounds like you are "riding the clutch" (although you are not, as there isn't a clutch pedal!)

I found this the other week when I had a Civic Hybrid as a courtesy car.

I-Shift "Automatic Manual"
It is, quite simply, a conventional six-speed gearbox and clutch (just the ONE, I think, not two).

That answers a question! I always wondered if the I-SHIFT actually was a automated manual, like VW's DSG but with just one clutch. Incidentally, I've driven a DSG-equipped Golf Mk5 and in auto mode the changes are superb. But a common issue with these, judging by some reports of the latest Golf with DSG, is that the software changes up too early in the name of economy. I wouldn't be surprised if some third-party company offers to reprogramme these gearboxes, in the same way some offer to chip your diesel for increased performance.

[guest436]

DSG in the new Golf is too eager to change gears. At 30mph it changes up too early when the 1.4 turbo/supercharged engine could easily stay in that gear.

[guest983]

I have an update for you on my I-shift (I started this post).  Because the engine is new, and because the I-Shift experience is new (and because I've been chasing impressive MPG figures! Hell, someone's gotta save the planet), I've been accelerating very slowly.

In response, the Jazz's gearbox also changes quite slowly, resulting in the passengers all doing "the nodding dog" (not major neck jerks, I should point out!).  BUT, given a slightly more press-on driving style, the little kick from the gear change actually seems LESS pronounced to me. So maybe that's the secret - put yer foot down.

Now, at this point, the CVT fanatics will be nodding (of their own free will!) sagely, and saying how this only confirms to them that the I-Shift Automatic manual is not "as good" as their old 'box. I still say that that's an OPINION, and that in MY opinion I consider the I-Shift much more than just an acceptable advance over the manual transmission. I repeat; the I-Shift and CVT gearboxes DO NOT perform the same, and if that is your expectation, then you will be disappointed.

And even the wife loves it! (It has been many thousands of miles since her left foot last had anything useful to do, in the way of propelling a motor vehicle).

Larry

[guest986]

Having just taken delivery of my i-Shift Jazz last week, I would agree that in no way could it possibly be described as "Jerky" as most of the reviews I have read seem to claim. Yes, there is a slight hesitation as it changes up, but it is certainly not a "jerk". I frequently find myself glancing down at the display to see if it has actually changed gear, it's that smooth.
My only observation would be that in full auto mode, it tends to change up rather earlier than I would have done, and keeps the revs fairly low. But that's not really a criticim, it's down to personal preference more than anything.
I haven't found anything to really dislike about the i-Shift yet, except that delicate manouvring and inching forward in traffic requires a different driving technique which will take some getting used to (I'm used to a manual shift).

[guest1045]

I took delivery of my EX Cerulean Blue last Tuesday and have to say I am well impressed with the I-Shift so far.  I have for the last 20 years driven a full automatic with torque converters (3 Toyota Corolla's). I am used to keeping the right down moving up through the gears and yes 1st & 2nd changes on the Jazz give the impression that something is holding the car back. I am not sure at this stage if there should be a slight reduction of the right foot at the right moment but determining that moment I find difficult to judge.  We live on a very slight hill and when moving off from cold I find that going up the hill it stays too long in 1st.  I am tempted to use full manual control here but maybe it's my right foot pressure not being positive enough.  (I have a very weak right leg from birth - short leg/artificial hip etc.).  I am taking the car at steady speeds at present, not exceeding 60 mph. I am looking forward to getting the excellent mpg compared to my thirsty Corolla as well as enjoying a reductuion in car tax from the Corollo's £245 next year on a 190g CO2 1.6.  According to a website the £120 charged now on the Jazz will reduce to £90 from Apr 2010 but maybe my facts are wrong.  All in all, I am well chuffed so far.

[guest983]

I'm glad you are pleased with your new Jazz, Bob.

Most automatics (past and present) of my acquaintance will tend to hold on to first a little longer if the engine is either cold, or you are going up hill, or both! That seems to be quite intentionally programmed in to the gear-change software. A cold or slow-running engine is going to have little torque, probably when you need it most.

A few people have commented here and there about the "something holding the car back" syndrome. Obviously, while the car is changing gear, the engine revs are backed off a little, and any continuous acceleration is lost as the cogs are swapped about. This is just like a manual gear-change, and in a manual car I think the driver (and passengers) are just inclined to accept it. 

But when a computer makes that change for you, especially while you've still got your foot on the gas, it can feel like the engine has lost a power momentarily, especially when you hadn't done anything to initiate it. So I find that the driver tends to notice it most, but the passengers less so!

It is interesting that we are getting a spread of views about whether the gears change too early, or too late. Allowing for the usual variations in opinion, that probably suggests Honda have got it about right

[guest1083]

Laurence, great article. Finally, a fair comparison of various types of trasmission.

I bought Honda Jazz Comfort with i-shift a few days ago. No regrets so far. I-shift is very handy for driving in our area (frequent stops or speed change, 80 km max). Driving in automatic mode is all right, although I still have to adjust my driving habits a bit. As for manual mode, I fancy this one to become the mode I will use regulalry. I feel it offers a better level of control of of the car and should have a lower fuel consumption (at least, in principle).

I am seriously considering to get cruise control (hopefully, by my Honda dealer), cause maintaining the speed on a highway is a pain in the neck (in the foot, I mean). (On a highway, I miss power and cruise control of BMW X3 (manual trasmission), in which I drove during my driving lessons, but this is an unfair comparison, of course  .)

Honda should have made CC an option for all versions of Jazz, not just elegance and executive.

[guest1083]

After a few more days of driving, I enjoy automatic mode more and more. Initially, I tried sort of help i-shift by giving gas in steps in order to allow i-shift to gradually shift the gears. That was sort of simulation of driving with manual transmission and turned to be a big mistake.

Now I just press the gas pedal down firmly in certain tempo (mostly from 2nd gear), reach a speed of say 50-60 km/h in 3-4 seconds, take my foot of the gas a bit, and let i-shift to find the proper gear (5th/6th). If you accelerate too slow, i-shift will change gear sooner and you'll feel that slight loss of power more oftener.

Cheers!

[guest494]

You guys know that i-shift  is a semi-automatic gearbox  as in it is an automated manual gearbox ( it is not comparible to a full automatic - simply because it is a manual)

[guest983]

Yes, Brodick, I think we do know this!

To confirm - the Honda Ishift gearbox is a conventional six speed fixed ratio gearbox, mated to a conventional single plate clutch. Thus far....like just about every other "manual" car out there.

Except (here it comes) there is NO Gearstick (as such), or clutch pedal.  Instead, a computer and a couple of servo motors controls the whole gear change process for you. I do not know this for sure, but I'd put a small bet on the fact that the clutch and gearbox share 90%+ of  the same components as the manual version of the car.

To give some illusion of driver control, you can override the gear change point to a degree, with a couple of Formula 1 style paddles, but for just about everyone these prove to be of more use in selling the car (while only add a few pounds to the basic cost of manufacturing the car) than to drive it.

Shock! Horror! But this style of marketing is everywhere you look. More buttons on your dishwasher, camera, TV remote or car than 95% of consumers will EVER use, but it gives the product the marginal edge over another similar but slightly less "well" (read: "pointless") equipped product. So the manufacturers continue to give us what we think we want, rather than what we need. And will ever.

Wait a mo - did he say "no gearstick?" (yes, I did). So, you reply in triumph, what's THAT thing, then, where the gear stick normally goes? That, my friend, is little more than a set of SWITCHES ON A POLE that send an electrical signal to the computer which controls the servo motor which changes the gears. It is more like a lolly stick than a gear stick.

Here's the bottom line. Push the lolly stick into the "drive" position, and press the right pedal. The car drives off. Your left foot gets to take the afternoon off, and your left hand (for drivers in the UK, at least) gets to prod assorted buttons on the radio trying to find something half decent to listen to, in the absence of the sound of any graunched manual gear changes. Call THAT music? Why in my day....

[Bonzo]

Have had the I-shift a week, and find it a pleasure to drive, at least, when you take your foot off the throttle pedal, it engine brakes, not like conventional autos, they just carry on, and need the brake pedal stamped on, the I-shift drives like a clutched car without the pedal

[guest983]

"...like a clutched car without the pedal... "

That's because that's EXACTLY what it is, Bonzo!