Author Topic: Mk2 or Mk3??  (Read 22045 times)

dzidrisiya

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Re: Mk2 or Mk3??
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2016, 10:05:40 PM »
Mk3 over mk2 or 1 every time

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Kenneve

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Re: Mk2 or Mk3??
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2016, 11:03:21 AM »
Hi Guys

My existing 2013 Honda Jazz EX CVT car recently went in for routine service and it's first MOT and I was provided with a 2016 Honda Jazz SE CVT as a courtesy car
This evaluation is based upon the desire to possibly part-exchange the car for a new one and my findings are compared with the existing car, over a distance of approximately 60 miles

Positive Points:-

1. The ride is much better and the suspension seems more compliant and able to soak up potholes/speed bumps more easily.
2. The steering is more precise and has a slightly stronger self centring action, so is less likely to wander on motorways etc.
3. The execution of the cruise control is improved with the ability to show the actual set cruise speed and also link to prevailing speed limits.
4. Fuel consumption seems to be marginally better.
5. Integration of a mobile phone is much improved with the ability to connect to the phone's directory etc.

Negative points:-

1. The engine seems noisier than the MK2 particularly under acceleration in the 2-3000 rpm  range sounding more akin to a high speed diesel engine than petrol. Noise levels at cruise speeds were acceptable.
2. The execution of the CVT is poor in comparison, again particularly in the mid range, where in order overtake someone, it was necessary to either floor the accelerator or flip the down paddle. There also appears to be a number of 'steps' in the gears, more akin to a conventional auto gearbox. The previous system is more progressive and proportional to pedal position.
3. My overall enjoyment was somewhat spoilt by my inability to properly see the instruments.They seem to be very poorly illuminated in daylight and no amount of adjustment with the control seemed to make much difference, could it be due to the change from an orange to blue backlight. It was a bright sunny day and I was not wearing sunglasses at the time. My dealer now tells me, that there is a specific procedure, to adjust the lights, which involves the auto lights being activated
4. The auto headlights seem to have mind of their own. At one point I was stopped at traffic lights under overhanging trees and the headlights came on.  What the guy in front of me thought, I can only guess! Unfortunately it is not possible to permanently disable the system, since the Off position is springloaded to Auto. Why? I know my existing car has auto headlights, but I can switch them off, if necessary. It would seem that the only way get round this problem, is to drive on sidelights, which of course defeats the object of DRLs.
5.   The armrest as part of the storage box, is useless and much too far away when the seat is raised.
It needs to be attached to the seat as previous, so that it rises and falls with the seat.
6. The boot floor would be far too flimsy when the polystyrene blocks are removed, to accommodate a spare wheel and needs to be stiffened up to  suit. My dealer now tells me that there is a polystyrene block available, designed to accommodate the spare wheel

So, whilst finding one or two details that I was not impressed with, I think overall there is a significant improvement compared with the previous car and have just ordered a EX CVT for delivery in September.
I just hope I have done the right thing and can live with these peculiar foibles.

mikebore

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Re: Mk2 or Mk3??
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2016, 11:36:13 AM »

2. The steering is more precise and has a slightly stronger self centring action, so is less likely to wander on motorways etc.
4. Fuel consumption seems to be marginally better.

Negative points:-

1. The engine seems noisier than the MK2 particularly under acceleration in the 2-3000 rpm  range sounding more akin to a high speed diesel engine than petrol. Noise levels at cruise speeds were acceptable.
2. The execution of the CVT is poor in comparison, again particularly in the mid range, where in order overtake someone, it was necessary to either floor the accelerator or flip the down paddle. There also appears to be a number of 'steps' in the gears, more akin to a conventional auto gearbox. The previous system is more progressive and proportional to pedal position.

I have just quoted the points I can strongly identify with after 2500miles of Mk3 ownership following previous Mk2.

The steering on the Mk2 was too light as well as having less self centering. More feedback from Mk3

Fuel consumption is a solid 10% better than my Mk2. I keep detailed records. I don't know if you regard this as marginal.

I agree about the engine being noisier, but mine has improved as it has run in. The quid pro quo is that mostly the car is more lively than the Mk2. I say mostly because, linked to the next point, there do seem some flat spots.

IMO the CVT feels different for two reasons:
1. Honda have stated that they have deliberately tried to make the CVT more like a normal automatic, presumably to counter the oft stated criticism that when you try and accelerate a CVT you put your foot on the gas and the engine revs up but nothing else happens until the car catches up.
2. The engine uses two different cycles achieved via valve timing: the economical Atkinson at lower power and the conventional Otto at higher power. The CVT has a extra job to to manage the transition between cycles as well as everything else.

My personal experience is that my true feelings about any car are not really apparent until I have driven it for a few months. In the case of the Mk3, while I liked it when it was new and on a test drive, I like it a whole lot more now it feels totally familiar.

Kenneve

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Re: Mk2 or Mk3??
« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2016, 12:06:08 PM »
Hi Mike

Many thanks for your quick response, it's just the sort of thing I was looking for, to put my mind at rest regarding some of my concerns
Certainly  the 10% improvement in fuel consumption is a good plus point and I'm pleased to here that the engine has quietened down having done this mileage.
I expect the auto headlights will bug me for while, will just have get used to them.

monkeydave

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Re: Mk2 or Mk3??
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2016, 11:05:00 AM »
maybe the engine is noisier because it is twin cam? and is the 10% better fuel, do you use supermarket or shell etc, i seem to get 5mpg more on shell than morrisons and that is my workings not the display on my mk2.

what revs is the mk3 doing on the motorway at 70 in 6th gear?

Downsizer

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Re: Mk2 or Mk3??
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2016, 09:35:33 PM »
My 10% fuel consumption gain is using supermarket 95 in both the Mk2 and the Mk 3, mostly ASDA. There has been much discussion about fuel types elsewhere in this forum.

VicW

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Re: Mk2 or Mk3??
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2016, 04:02:34 PM »
From what I have read in this topic I would be happy to change my 2011 EX CVT for a new Jazz but I would buy the 'S' model with CVT as it has everything I need in the spec.
Fortunately it doesn't have the 'Connect Infotainment' system which I do not need and is in any case nothing but a pain in the 'arris going by reports in this forum.

Vic.

trebor1652

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Re: Mk2 or Mk3??
« Reply #67 on: August 26, 2016, 02:48:28 PM »
My ex CVT does 70mph at 2200rpm and has just returned an indicated 52.4 mpg on motorway and 45 minutes of stop start driving.
Quite pleased with that.

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