Honda,bottom of dealers league

[bucksfizz]

The Business section of the Daily  Telegraph on Monday the 2nd,reports that' Honda is losing the confidence of its dealers in Britain as the group attempts to halt a sales and production slide in a booming market'.
' The National Franchised Dealers Association review shows Honda as the lowest scoring brand on issues ranging from relations with manufacturers to  profits and prospects '.
  The  Dealer survey covered 29 vehicle networks.
 I am sure that Honda would be in a much higher position in a Garage/customer survey.

[peteo48]

I think this is more to do with the fact that the public are turning their backs on Honda as a brand. The revamped Civic is not seen as desirable as either the Golf or the Ford Focus. On top of that there is fierce competition from Korean brands which are doing very well now offering similar reliability but, crucially, lower prices.

That doesn't mean Honda have become bad overnight but that the competition is getting stronger.

I think Honda do need to look at pricing. The Jazz looks very expensive, relatively, if you buy from new.

I will be sticking with my Jazz (bought used) for some time however and wouldn't rule out another.

[madasafish]

Honda has limited resources.

It sells lots of cars in the US and Asia : the markets are  doing well.

The European market is going nowhere.

Where do you think management are going to allocate new model resources to?


Answer: fewer to Europe.

[monkeydave]

I think this is more to do with the fact that the public are turning their backs on Honda as a brand. The revamped Civic is not seen as desirable as either the Golf or the Ford Focus. On top of that there is fierce competition from Korean brands which are doing very well now offering similar reliability but, crucially, lower prices.

That doesn't mean Honda have become bad overnight but that the competition is getting stronger.

I think Honda do need to look at pricing. The Jazz looks very expensive, relatively, if you buy from new.

I will be sticking with my Jazz (bought used) for some time however and wouldn't rule out another.

if your looking at prices of jazz it does look expensive until you see how much they want for a yaris or nissan note, all cars are pretty expensive these days cant get a civic se 1.6 new for £12,500 anymore

[Rory]

Went to our local dealer's "VIP Special Sales Event" recently and it was pretty embarrassing.  Place was deserted.

The deal on offer for a new Jazz, especially bearing in mine the "event", was still dearer than the the DriveTheDeal price and for the p/x (daughter's Mitsubishi Colt) the dealer used WeBuyAnyCar.com to value it!

Bearing in mind the new model (2015) Jazz is already out in the US and, even though it's much better equipped, costs the same in $ as the one in the UK does in £, I think Honda is off their rocker with the current Jazz pricing.  They're going to lose a lot of Jazz customers over the next year as current customers change their cars and don't want to buy another Jazz that's exactly the same as their current one.

our dealer is in pretty flash new premises and I've no idea how they can keep it going.

[guest1521]

Pricing for a new Jazz...

People 'buy on emotion and justify with logic' is an old marketing/sales axiom. Most will pay 'over the odds' when factors other than 'price' are 'right'.

When I bought a new 59/GE Jazz I considered at length and testdrove Fiesta, Fabia, Polo, Hyundai i20, i30 and Kia c'eed. Admittedly Polo and Hyundai i30 felt more 'premium' in the cabin however none was close to Jazz for its precise 'feel' in dashboard switches, gear change and doors/hatch open and shut. Let alone ease and precision when converting the back seat area to 'cargo-carrying'. 

Crucially, I wanted to be able to seat 2 adults in the back in adequate comfort on occasional long journeys. And I wanted to pay as little as possible... image was put to one side.

Rather than expensively owning one small car for 'round town' and another for 'trips', I wanted just 1 car to 'do it all'... adequately. To be sure of that, at 6'1" tall, I 'sat behind myself' in each of the showrooms before test-driving round town and on the motorway.
 
Jazz was the only one to fit the bill for head and legroom as well as lack of the typical claustrophobia so often suffered by backseat passengers.

Now I can't think of any other car with such a spread of all-round capability and overall versatility... for the money. No other car comes close to Jazz in that respect. In terms of capability relative to purchase price and/or running costs. ("The little car that can...")

How Jazz made me 'feel' is another matter! At best, clever to recognise 'value' when I see it... at worst tight-fisted, impecunious... and old. Strange to feel that way. I guess it thoroughly lacks the 'sporty hatch' feel. For starters, Honda, why not fit the wee spoiler (as STANDARD) over the back window?! It transforms the backend.

So I think image and marketing communication is 'the' problem in UK/Europe for Jazz. Not to forget, importantly, the lack of 'techy' communications/audio stuff for young people...


 



 

[emmerdale]

Hi, just looked on Honda Site little rear spoiler £330 fitted,what planet are they living on ?

[Rory]

Now I can't think of any other car with such a spread of all-round capability and overall versatility... for the money.

If you were buying now, the new Nissan Note looks very good.  A tiny big bigger than Jazz (2015 Jazz will get a bit more rear legroom but smaller boot) and loads of tech equipment on some models if you want it.

[guest1521]

If you were buying now, the new Nissan Note looks very good.
[/quote]

Quite right. The 'old' Nissan Note was very good, too. I forgot. It was the very first one I test-drove but then overlooked it because the dealer was inconveniently not in my locality. I remember lots of space front/rear and a good drive. Of the cars I mentioned earlier, the Note was the only contender vs Jazz for versatility and so much space... for the money. None of the others were remotely in the hunt.

[monkeydave]

nissan note is less power for more money and do nissan still have the cam chain stretch problems after 40k miles?

[JohnAlways]

I came from a Note DCi, no they don't have the cam stretch problem anymore as did the almera, BTW the DCi is a Renault engine and pulls like a train with a cam belt. However if you look at the Note forum and the Jazz forum, the problem posts on the Note forum outweigh the Jazz by at least 5 to 1. Note's have other problems, sub frames coming lose, mounting shearing off for anti roll bars, tail gate wiring breaking. The note for me was a good car (112,000 in three years) but the build quality is not so good. My dealer was a bit of a cowboy as well but that's not unique. I'm still not happy with the gearchange 4th to 5th on my Jazz but seems to be getting better with time, I miss the power from the DCi engine but wouldn't now go back to a Note.

[culzean]

Now I can't think of any other car with such a spread of all-round capability and overall versatility... for the money. No other car comes close to Jazz in that respect. In terms of capability relative to purchase price and/or running costs. ("The little car that can...")

How Jazz made me 'feel' is another matter! At best, clever to recognise 'value' when I see it... at worst tight-fisted, impecunious... and old. Strange to feel that way. I guess it thoroughly lacks the 'sporty hatch' feel. For starters, Honda, why not fit the wee spoiler (as STANDARD) over the back window?! It transforms the backend.

So I think image and marketing communication is 'the' problem in UK/Europe for Jazz. Not to forget, importantly, the lack of 'techy' communications/audio stuff for young people...

passengers have commented how 'open' the Jazz feels in the rear. Compared to most cars today with 'squidgy' little rear windows.

most young people would trade Alloys, low profiles, a spoiler and loads of distracting techy stuff for a well built car (most don't really know or care what is under the bonnet anyway).

Nissan used to be solidly built until the French got involved and started building the usual 3-1/2year built-in-obsolescence - car with loads of gadgets.

lots of car companies lose their way,  all the big ones have over the years - some spectacularly so  - and the turn-around can take a while

problem is,  Honda is an engineering company that builds cars. I hope they never turn their back on engineering.

[guest4871]

problem is,  Honda is an engineering company that builds cars. I hope they never turn their back on engineering.

I think this hits the nub of the problem. The basic design and engineering is excellent but is  badly let down by an understanding of how to market and distribute to a mass European market. Not a problem it seems in USA and Japan.

I suspect the responsibility for this lies with a tired and complacent senior European management in Honda Europe and the UK distribution arm which I understand to responsible for the Honda UK dealership network and tailoring product to market.

It does not surprise me that the dealership network is demoralised - poor leadership, a real lack of imagination and drive, awful local market product modifications, promotions which in some cases are quite silly if not boring and very poor sales people. (Why don't they employ more women?).

The quick, and I think urgent, answer in Europe is a new distribution management team with strong leadership and real inspiration, enthusiasm and commitment for the consumer. (If Skoda could do it, anyone can!). Honda has a wonderful story to tell with wonderful core products.

[bucksfizz]

There should be two design improvements in the 2015 Jazz which would significantly improve the sales figures viz fit a more compliant front and rear suspension to meet the requirements of the Middleaged,/Elderly drivers who currently suffer on UK roads and offer more performance for the younger drivers who like to customise their cars .Perhaps an option of the 1.5 litre engine would be the ideal solution for a vehicle which is currently associated with the grey-haired section of the community.
 The Ford Fiesta is a model which should be matched  by the next Jazz in 2015.

[JohnAlways]

It seems from the Nissan Note forum today nissan dealerships are becoming a little thin on the ground as well, many of the remaining are also Renault dealerships.
One quote from a London Note owner:
My local dealer has lost (or surrendered) the Nissan franchise so I thought I would check the Nissan website for the (surely lots of) alternatives.
There is now only one franchise in London (on a shared site with Renault) in W3.
Tough times obviously.
If I can't get local support, I'm voting with my feet (and wallet).

Maybe the Japanese no longer see the UK market as viable? I can't believe how popular Hyundai have become(not knocking them just they never used to have much of a market share).
Obviously Jaguar are fighting back with the release of their new "low cost" model. I suppose that's evolution...