Author Topic: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?  (Read 5754 times)

bucksfizz

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2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« on: August 18, 2014, 04:18:51 PM »
 Honest John,the Telegraph motoring correspondent has driven a Civic in Japan with the new engine proposed for
the 2015 Jazz.It is a 3 cylinder direct injection,turbocharged unit giving 120 BHP and 200 N ft of torque.
  He states that this new engine is exceptionally refined ,a quality due to the use of liquid filled engine mounts.
   It would be interesting to see the BHP and Torque curves of this new unit to determine if there is more 'low down' torque available for quicker getaways.
  http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/honda/jazz-2014/

SuperCNJ

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Re: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 02:14:33 PM »






This is a really interesting topic. We've been keeping a close eye on the next Jazz as a potential replacement for our GD which will be 10 years old by the time it arrives here.

I have a lot of faith in Honda whenever it comes to engine technology but I'm not sure where they are with turbo technology given that they are relatively new to forced induction in consumer cars. HJ's reviews seems promising though at least in terms of refinement as performance is never a problem with turbos but getting that performance with decent economy and driveability is. And this is the area that I'd be most interested in particularly given my experience with small engine turbos from other manufacturers.

On paper they are great, good economy, decent power and good low end torque as well as low CO2 = low road tax. However having driven the VW 1.2 turbo and several other larger engine turbos, I can't help but feel a little sceptical about the real-world MPG figures. As it was just impossible to get near to the figures quoted in the brochure, even when the salesman was driving. I think the trouble is, unless you’re content with driving without stretching the legs of the turbo, then you might just get the claimed economy figures, but as soon as you start putting your foot down a little (and you probably would have to with small engines), the economy figures goes out of the window as you’ve effectively transformed a 1.0L to a 1.8L.

There is no doubt that small engine turbos are the way forward for small cars, but to have reasonable pick up at traffic lights or to go up inclines a small NA engine will never be strong enough, you will need to use the torque from the turbo which always comes at a price - fuel. Unless of course Honda again has some tricks up its sleeves…

The obvious solution to this is to bolt on a hybrid system but whilst the hybrid technology is well proven, it is still relatively expensive. And to introduce a hybrid system with a 1.0L turbo for example, may just bump the price beyond the reach of Honda’s target customers.

I really hope Honda has come up with something new that will be a real game changer in terms of economy. Afterall, the last evolution from GD to GE was not particularly impressive.

John Ratsey

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Re: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 04:08:30 PM »
I have to wonder whether a hybrid version of a 1L turbo might be more economical than the rumoured 1.5L Atkinson cycle hybrid. The motor would boost the low end torgue and help keep the turbo, when needed, to operate in its most efficient range.

Anyway, the smaller engine should also warm up faster which is one of the factors affecting fuel consumption.

We'll have to wait and see what eventually comes out of the factory but Honda are evidently trying to raise the economy bar without compromising driveability.

interlock

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Re: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 08:53:42 PM »
I agree. I really like the characteristic of the electric support for the engine when pulling away, in fact, generally when pottering around the hybrid/cvt useability reminds me of my old Xantia 1.9td in third.

Rory

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Re: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 06:07:19 PM »

However having driven the VW 1.2 turbo and several other larger engine turbos, I can't help but feel a little sceptical about the real-world MPG figures. As it was just impossible to get near to the figures quoted in the brochure, even when the salesman was driving. I think the trouble is, unless you’re content with driving without stretching the legs of the turbo, then you might just get the claimed economy figures, but as soon as you start putting your foot down a little (and you probably would have to with small engines), the economy figures goes out of the window as you’ve effectively transformed a 1.0L to a 1.8L.

You do know how the brochure MPG figures are derived, don't you?

VicW

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Re: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 07:56:37 PM »
You do know how the brochure MPG figures are derived, don't you?

Sometime in the future the rules governing testing for fuel consumption and emissions are to change.
The tests will no longer be conducted on super tuned engines under laboratory conditions that bear no resemblance to real life driving but will be arrived at by on the road testing.

Vic.

SuperCNJ

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Re: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 02:44:21 PM »

However having driven the VW 1.2 turbo and several other larger engine turbos, I can't help but feel a little sceptical about the real-world MPG figures. As it was just impossible to get near to the figures quoted in the brochure, even when the salesman was driving. I think the trouble is, unless you’re content with driving without stretching the legs of the turbo, then you might just get the claimed economy figures, but as soon as you start putting your foot down a little (and you probably would have to with small engines), the economy figures goes out of the window as you’ve effectively transformed a 1.0L to a 1.8L.

You do know how the brochure MPG figures are derived, don't you?

Yes I do. Generally speaking you can't reproduce the mpg figures quoted in the brochure. But some manufacturers are very good with the figures and you can actually get what is quote and with some cars, you can get more than what is quoted.

Some manufacturers do exaggerate more than others but the 1.2T VW we drove just didn't even get close. It was something like 40+mpg urban in the book and we were struggling to higher than low 20's.

Our Jazz (GD) is spot on. We frequently get above 50 mpg but average around 40-45mpg which is spot on.

Also my BMW 1-series is supposed to get 27mpg combined, I'm getting just over 28 and usually more on the urban and extra urban figures too. So although we should take the brochure figures with a pinch of salt, in some cases there is some truth in them.

Tip: Honest John has a good page on real world MPG which shows the cars with a "percentage" accuracy against the claimed figures which I find more useful than say the Fuelly site.




culzean

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Re: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2014, 08:19:42 PM »
Honda seem pretty accurate / honest with their MPG figures,  Honda score 91% overall (average Honda car achieves in real life 91% of its published MPG figure (some slightly less and some over 100%).

Audi and BMW and Ford both very low 80% of published figure in real life, and VW about same as Honda with 90% score.

many car companies are aware of the criticism and put a disclaimer across the bottom of adverts now  that 'claimed mpg figures may not be achieved in real world conditions and only to be used as a comparison between vehicles' or some such weasel worded gobbledegook.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

chrisc

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Re: 2015 JAZZ.Worth waiting for?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 02:35:00 PM »
Daughter has a 1.1 litre VW Polo with a turbo and gets 7 litres/100km which I thought a bit low for a 1.1l engine.  Performance is quite lively though
If music be the food of love, play on

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