Author Topic: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)  (Read 102213 times)

basquejazzster

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #135 on: August 17, 2016, 06:55:05 PM »
So... I took off the valve, pretty easy no probs and found there was no gasket... ??? of course I am going to buy one but I guess some mechanic just didn't bother putting a new one in...??? I need to use my car in the next few days.... will it be ok for a couple of days with no gasket??? thanks for any help...

culzean

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #136 on: August 17, 2016, 09:11:01 PM »
The only thing that may leak out is a tiny amount of exhaust gas under the bonnet,  slight chance that it may get into cabin ventilation intake,  but if it has been running for a while with no gasket I guess it will be OK for another few days  ::)
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

basquejazzster

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #137 on: August 17, 2016, 10:12:54 PM »
Thanks Culzean, anyone got a link for a gasket.


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RichardA

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #138 on: August 21, 2016, 07:05:37 PM »
I thought my Jazz was suffering from the EGR valve problem, but the jerkiness went away after I had the airbag recall work done. Maybe the dealer disconnected the battery?

dzincha

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #139 on: August 24, 2016, 02:33:22 PM »
Hi all
My wife's jazz '04 made 1.4 got p409 and p406 errors. Egr valve is cleaned, but lamp turns on aigain after ~60km.
How to disable it? If i just put metal plate between valve and housing would solve a problem? Or ecu needs to be flashed?
Another problem is with front wipers. If it cleans with period it stps on top of window-5cm.
If wiping without pause all is ok. I tested all relays and didnt found involved. Could it be rlay case or mechanical?

TG

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #140 on: August 24, 2016, 03:19:19 PM »
P0406 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Sensor A Circuit High Voltage
P0409 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Sensor A Circuit

You don't need to change ECM settings, it just receives a signal to record if the valve is open or closed, and it also sends a signal to control it.  Putting in a plate is the same as a blocked or closed valve, ideally you want it to be open when the engine is at high RPM and low load.

The errors may indicate a wiring fault, a poor connection, the valve itself may be failing to open or close properly due to blockage, the valve actuator may have failed, the valve position sensor may have failed.  Cleaning the valve shaft usually fixes it.
 
There should be 12v on yellow/green wire, and black should be continuous to ground.
When unplugged, applying 12v & ground to the pink & black connections (bottom row outside) on the valve respectively should activate it, you should also be able to measure the resistance between yellow/green and green/black and white/black (top row on valve connector), the two smaller values should add up to the largest. 



Blocked EGR valve may give P0401 code

You can obtain a salvaged replacement for about €40. (eBay etc.)

Disabling it may have an impact on your NOx emissions.
--
TG
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 05:59:31 PM by TG »

dzincha

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #141 on: August 24, 2016, 04:08:16 PM »
Thaks TG for answer.
Maybe i can unplug connector, put jumper on yellow/green or and white black and ecu would think that egr is ok?

TG

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #142 on: August 24, 2016, 05:05:55 PM »
Not sure it's that simple, when it tells it to open a certain amount, it wants confirmation that it opened by the amount requested, same when it's closing it. 

It will probably generate a fault code if it thinks it is always open, or always closed, or stuck part way.

It won't know if the exhaust gas path is blocked or not (by a plate or deposits) but information from other sensors such as the first catalytic converter HO2S sensor and MAP sensor might be interpreted to determine this.

Even if the pathway inside looks clear, some people have reported success by making sure the piston/plunger inside the valve was clean, but it could be other faults.  This is most likely causing the high voltage reading as the valve position is probably different to that requested by the ECU.

Easiest (or best) option is to change it for a salvaged part.
I have a spare at my other house, so will measure the resistances & characteristics at the weekend.   I don't believe in much of the earlier talk of blanking plates and disabling it as it should provide a contribution to reducing emissions - your emissions test may be more strict than the UK.

http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/97/SAA2E97A20300000000CAAT10.HTML

"The EGR system reduces oxides of nitrogen (NOx) emissions by recirculating exhaust gas through the EGR valve and the intake manifold into the combustion chambers. The ECM/PCM memory includes the ideal EGR valve position for varying operating conditions.

The EGR valve position sensor detects the amount of EGR valve lift and sends it to the ECM/PCM. The ECM/PCM then compares it with the ideal lift in its memory (based on signals sent from other sensors). If there is any difference between the two, the ECM/PCM cuts current to the EGR valve."





On your wipers - best start a separate topic, but I believe there is a contact within the drive mechanism that knows the park position. Some people modify their rear wiper so it parks vertically.
--
TG

dzincha

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #143 on: September 02, 2016, 12:58:46 PM »
Took that plunger from egr with pliers, moved inside out, washed with diesel - ok.

jimmcwibb

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #144 on: March 21, 2017, 12:20:03 PM »
It looks like this thread has been split... at least the first post on page one seems to not be the first post of the thread. Was the original thread archived somewhere?

Ronalddeno

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #145 on: April 02, 2017, 09:40:52 AM »
Since one year my Jazz is suffering from judder at around 2000 rpm. But it only starts when the engine is warm. Not when it's cold. If the EGR valve problem is about sticking open, what it should do at high revs, so when engine is warm, why don't I have this judder when the engine is still cold ?

basquejazzster

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #146 on: December 13, 2017, 03:31:40 PM »
I have blanked off the EGR valve with a blanking plate. I am selling my car and twice after canceling a p1491 error - insufficient valve lift - it has come back. I have now cleaned the valve and am worried it will come back and show the engine error light. Has this happened to anyone else, any tips? Maybe the solenoid is stuck and the egr valve needs a good knock to dislodge the valve? The judder I had was definitely the egr valve because when I unplugged the valve it went away immediately and it seems to runs really well with the blanking plate on. Thanks!

sparky Paul

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #147 on: December 17, 2017, 10:16:01 AM »
If the valve is stuck, it will still throw up a fault - the ECU still has to see the EGR valve working, even if it's blanked off.

It's a fiddly job, but you have to clean it as thoroughly as possible with some non-oily solvent such as carb cleaner, make sure the plunger moves freely and replace with the blanking plate in situ.

I'm on the verge of blanking mine off too.

basquejazzster

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #148 on: February 11, 2018, 05:51:46 PM »
If the valve is stuck, it will still throw up a fault - the ECU still has to see the EGR valve working, even if it's blanked off.

It's a fiddly job, but you have to clean it as thoroughly as possible with some non-oily solvent such as carb cleaner, make sure the plunger moves freely and replace with the blanking plate in situ.

I'm on the verge of blanking mine off too.
Thanks! In the end I bought a second hand egr valve on ebay and installed that with the gasket! Seems to be working well!

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bramptontrev

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Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
« Reply #149 on: July 07, 2018, 01:14:17 PM »
Have just cleaned my EGR, so some additional feedback.

Car, UK Jazz Se 1.4 2008 CVT, about 80k miles.  From time to time, about one month or so for the last year, it has exhibited a hiccup (or hesitation) and always after 2-5 miles from home (or cold) when then engine would appear to be transitioning between cold and hot and it hiccups if you have been coasting or gradually slowing down then apply some power (only a little needed) to load the engine power to maintain speed or slightly increase speed.

At no time have there been any warning lights, etc.

I found the following posts most useful:
Page 5, post 68 from onefourkrpm – the photo
Page 7, post 95 from madasfish – the no check light diagnosis
Page 7, post 103 from mink – the instructions


I add the following:
Buy a new gasket before you start – only available from Honda for £8-£10.
Buy 2 new EGR bolts, flange M8 x 25
Here is the parts diagram link https://www.parts-honda.uk/honda-cars/JAZZ/2008/14-SE/ENGINE/EGR-VALVE/17SAA801/E__0410/1/22267

I had a 1/2inch drive 12mm socket with 12 faces – it would not fit on because the socket shoulder was fouling the EGR body.  You will need a socket with a 3/8inch drive so less shoulder and less socket height. I bought a new one and it just fitted – the height was about 1mm too high so it just wiggled on to the front bolt.  The rear bolt was an easier fit.

Use a 6 face socket as the bolt will be tight – a 12 face socket will be prone to slipping and turning the bolt head faces into a round bolt (I tried with my badly fitting 12 face 1/2 inch socket and very quickly realised the bolt head was starting to deform.)

You will need a socket extension bar.

My bolts were tight.  Trying the tighten up trick did not work.  So I used a hammer for a couple of sharp blows onto the extension bar onto each bolt.  Then try to undo the bolt – be patient, ensure your socket and extension bar are properly aligned vertically and gradually increase the turning pressure.  It need a fair bit of pressure – was using a 8inch socket lever handle –and then the bolt moved.

Undo each bolt about 2 turns.  Then apply pressure to the EGR body to release the gasket.  When loose remove the bolts and EGR.

My gasket came away almost 100% intact, however about 50% of the gasket was exhibiting some sort of ‘damage’, rather like when cardboard goes when wet.  The ‘damage’ was concentrated on the out side of each gas port hole where the pressure on the gasket would be least from the bolts.

On refitting the EGR, I used a torque wrench to refit – 16 ftlb has been mentioned somewhere in this thread

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