Poll

If your Jazz suffers from notchy steering, please tells us what year the car was registered

2002
6 (6.3%)
2003
8 (8.4%)
2004
6 (6.3%)
2005
16 (16.8%)
2006
16 (16.8%)
2007
18 (18.9%)
2008
25 (26.3%)

Total Members Voted: 87

Author Topic: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering  (Read 74350 times)

F Zacharia

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #75 on: May 05, 2015, 03:17:02 PM »
Got 2008 Jazz 1.4 SE
 I have a stiff steering issue too. In addition, the steering wheel does not return to zero without pulling the wheel.
Very disappointed.    :(
 


davew

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2015, 10:28:43 PM »
Same here.  I suspect that the problem is due to either a worn sensor (because it seems to be notchy on centre which is where most wear will occur assuming a carbon potentiometer is used) or possibly power loss to motor drive either due to failing inter-connects/ECU or even carbonized contacts to motor.  I haven't the wherewithall/confidence to check any of these things though I might try cleaning the motor contacts if I can get to them.

F Zacharia

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2015, 08:39:05 AM »
Thanks ..Dav

footychick7

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #78 on: January 19, 2016, 09:53:27 AM »
Hi, I am experiencing the same thing can anyone confirm is this really a characteristic of the car or do I need to take it to a garage. It feels so strange and slightly unsafe. Steering is heavier than any other power steering vehicle I have owned. Any recommendations on what it is that needs replacing or do I need the whole rack done? I have driven an SE and the steering was really light and a pleasure to drive so is this only common with the Sport and 15" wheels? Any advice would be greatly received?

Eddie Honda

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #79 on: January 19, 2016, 01:31:32 PM »
Start with checking tyre pressure pressures. Also check the make / condition /age of the front tyres.

My 1st Jazz when I bought it had some no-name (185/55 15) tyres on it and they had quite stiff sidewalls. The first thing I noticed when I got shot of them was the steering felt better, particularly initial turn-in.

culzean

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2018, 12:09:36 PM »

reviving an older thread rather than starting a new one..

Interesting video about changes from MK1 to MK2 Jazz in 2009,  but mainly interesting for comments on steering geometry and EPS.   

About 1 minute in the presenter states that the steering geometry on MK2 was revised and the current drawn by EPS raised from 40 amps (480 watts) in MK1 to 60 maps (720 watts) in MK2 - just goes to show how important a good battery has become on modern cars with electric power steering. May explain why MK1 steering could sometimes be a bit problematic.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 12:11:19 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

bus_ter

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2020, 02:47:41 PM »
Old thread, but thought I would add my experiences and thoughts.

My 2006 Jazz has the symptoms described here, notchy steering that 'gives' as you apply pressure. It's almost like the electric motor is asleep and requires a fraction of a second to wake up and start adding assistance. My Jazz also has weak self-centering, it does self centre but needs a little 'help' sometimes if you want to straighten up the wheel a little quicker than it wants to.

There seems to be a correlation with heat and the issue. At the start of a drive I hardly notice the effect at all, as the drive goes on it feels more pronounced. I'm noticing it more now in the Summer, than I do in the Winter. The effect seems to come on earlier.

I've owned the car for two years now and it doesn't seem to have worsened over that time. There's also a factor of how sensitive you are to steering feel. For example my wife drives the car and she is completely unaware of any issues with the steering. I suspect she's just not 'tuned in' to the steering feel of cars. As such I suspect this issue is very wide spread, and that most owners, ( especially the types that don't go on car forums), drive around completely unaware that there is an issue at all.

As for a fix, the only solution I've seem proposed is to fit a different steering rack. With the age of the car this simply doesn't make economical sense at all, and going by reports might not even fix the issue. It seems nobody has identified the exact cause of the issue. Earlier in this thread someone suggests that if the steering motor gets too hot it cuts power to prevent damage. Possibly there's something in this as for me it does seem to correlate with heat. If you could disable this it might resolve the issue, but it's probably all self contained in the sealed column?

In summary the car is still very much driveable, I suspect this issue is very wide spread, and I doubt we'll ever find a solution. 

Jocko

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #82 on: May 25, 2020, 03:03:05 PM »
The steering has improved with each new model so Honda found the answer. I believe the MK2 had a more powerful motor.

sparky Paul

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #83 on: May 25, 2020, 04:30:08 PM »
In summary the car is still very much driveable, I suspect this issue is very wide spread, and I doubt we'll ever find a solution.

Our 2008 is still driving fine, steering wise. The steering is dead and lifeless, and centreing is feeble, but that's the characteristics of the car.

The rubbery, sticky feeling that came on as the engine bay warmed up is still completely absent. Whatever cured this when I replaced the steering wheel I'm not exactly sure, but the problem never returned.

nadabro

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2020, 09:38:56 PM »
My 05 Jazz also has the same symptons, while i can live with the stiff steering, on highway is really annoying the feeling of a stuck wheel, moving slighty right/left does nothing, but if i move a inch more, the wheel unlocks..so constant corrections are required. Feels very unsafe.

Very disapointed with this issue, almost 20 years later the model was launched, aside replacing the steering rack, no simple solution exists.

aa123

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2020, 11:10:56 PM »
Could anyone tell me what exactly is meant with 'steering rack' replacement?

Are we talking about the assembly number 28 on this picture?



I understand from this thread that replacing a single part of the assembly, like the motor, is not sufficient, since it is not clear which part exactly is at fault?

culzean

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2020, 09:40:08 AM »
I assume it is the largest piece on that diagram the one the motor attaches to ( shaped like a tobacco smoking pipe ) -  the motor will be OK but it is the bit the motor drives and which transfers the rotary motion of motor to linear movement needed to move the wheels to steer car ( normally through a 'rack and pinion' - which is why it is called a steering rack ).  sparky paul replaced steering wheel and this made his steering better, have to remember MK1 Jazz was an experiment in EPS,  which Honda was at the forefront of,  so in effect it was an experiment and a bit under-powered (even at 40 amps later raised to 60 amps in mk2 ) and geometry may have not been optimal,  but really it does not cause many problems for a first attempt at lowering fuel consumption by ditching the power guzzling hydraulic system that drew engine power all the time to something that only drew electrical power when the steering wheel was operated.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering2.htm

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-HONDA-JAZZ-1-4-P-PETROL-POWER-STEERING-RACK-53600SAAE0/283762949791?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D0d7d610901aa4c96b48cc267bc695bbb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D352968329454%26itm%3D283762949791%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithBBEV1Filter%26brand%3DHonda&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 10:00:29 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2020, 11:05:34 AM »
28 is the assembly. They are exorbitantly priced new (if you can get one) and used may be as bad or worse than your own!

culzean

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2020, 11:17:49 AM »
MK1 steering was never perfect but reliable and OK once you got used to it,  it was never good at self centering from full lock - but given the Jazz has a turning circle you normally only get on a London Taxi it was always a big ask.  I agree that MK2 and onwards steering is better,  but really I never found it to be a problem on our MK1's - especially given that Jazz is probably expected to spend over 95% of its time on urban roads...
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

sparky Paul

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Re: Honda Jazz 2002-2008 Stiff or notchy power steering
« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2020, 12:48:18 PM »
I think you would have to replace the whole thing, part 28 in the diagram, to have any sort of guarantee of a fix - you can't really tell if the fault is in the actual rack or the motor assembly.

Now, this is a bit of a long post, but bear with me.

A lot of people say that the Jazz steering is poor, but you can live with it, and that it's just a characteristic of the car. I don't believe that these owners are experiencing the issue we are talking about here. We need to differentiate between the 'normal' dead steering feel of the mark 1 Jazz, with its poor centreing and lifeless, woolly feel, and a different problem which is a sticky, rubbery feel that makes it difficult to steer the car in a straight line. The former is simply a characteristic of the Jazz EPS system, while the latter, in my opinion, is most definitely a fault.

Our 2008 car definitely suffered from the latter, once the car had been driven for a while. When it was stone cold, the steering felt 'normal', but after a few miles, it started to develop the sticky rubbery feel where if you held a particular steering angle for 10 seconds or so, a significant input of force was required to turn the wheel - when it would suddenly 'give'.

I regarded that as a fault, and this opinion was further reinforced when I managed to 'cure' this by accident. I'm not sure what I disturbed, but the car was completely cured of this odd problem, and has remained so ever since.

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=10179

If you think that what you experiencing is just the 'characteristic' of the car's steering, i.e. the lifeless feel with poor centreing, this can be improved by toeing in the front wheels a little, towards the toe-in end of the acceptable range of 0 3.0mm. After playing with the tracking on the front of the Jazz, I found that anything towards the toe-out end of the' tracking range made the steering feel, and particularly the centreing, much worse - but toeing in a bit, away from the target of zero, improved it no end.

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