Oh! for a 1.6 engine.

[guest3418]

i prefer a cam chain to a cam belt, a lot less hassle when the car gets older and the 2004 1.6 se civic was my last car

Tell that to people who have a VW with a 1.2 or 1.4 TSI engine (105 to 180 bhp)...
VW is switching back to belts because they had huge issues with the timing chains on these engines...
There is no simple answer on what is better, a belt or a chain.

Verstuurd van mijn Xoom met Tapatalk

[guest3250]

Actually   the only reall issue I have had with the 1.4 is the lack of torque particularly below 2000rpm
I have adapted the way I drive it and can pretty much nip around quite briskly.
Yes a bigger engine wiuld be great - but I am now weighing against that the realluy nice economy
and I  am always 'pinging' over the 30mph around town as it is...

[monkeydave]

i prefer a cam chain to a cam belt, a lot less hassle when the car gets older and the 2004 1.6 se civic was my last car

Tell that to people who have a VW with a 1.2 or 1.4 TSI engine (105 to 180 bhp)...
VW is switching back to belts because they had huge issues with the timing chains on these engines...
There is no simple answer on what is better, a belt or a chain.

Verstuurd van mijn Xoom met Tapatalk

VW quality is total ********** (ive had polo and a golf from brand new so i know how bad they have become), they still use plastic impellers in the water pump not metal that wont crack and nylon window clips, and as for chains i can change out the water pump if i have to without touching the cam side as it runs off the fan belt, i don't need to change it for age after 5 or so years like a belt and i have seen a car that the water pump failed and ripped the cambelt through the cover and trash the valves

so for me when i got my 2004 1.6 civic and now 2011 1.2 jazz i don't have to keep going back to the dealer with problems just for a service once per year

my civic had a belt and i had it changed with the water pump at 60k and the water pump was like brand new when i inspected it but i much prefer chain and wouldn't go back to belts

[madasafish]

I have a Yaris diesel  or rather my wife has. The service costs are the same as a petrol Yaris.

As it's EU3 compliant, no problems around town - in nearly 7 years' ownership.

[guest3469]

When I heard this week of the new 1.6 diesel in the Civic I thought what a great engine for the Jazz!  But choice of engine really is horses for courses.  I had a Fiat 1.6 Dynamic Eco Diesel 105bhp for 30k miles, which on long runs gave 60+ mpg, but after a change in jobs I found myself doing more town driving and short journeys and economy dropped to around 48mpg.  My 1.4 ES gives the same overall consumption!  So why did I change?  My turbo blew at 43k miles as a result of the bearings suffering from heat sink, as a result of all the short start stops and the turbo probably never really got the chance to properly cool.  Another issue I had with the small capacity diesel was a scary lack of torque when starting off, it was a bit hit and miss when pulling out from a side road.  I ended up having the engine remapped to increase turbo response.  I read one of the Honda 1.6 diesel reviews stating the same torque "hole" at low revs.  So the new 1.6 diesel would probably be a superb engine in the Jazz but only for a specific range of drivers, higher mileage, longer journeys etc.  Coupled with an ultimately higher purchase price, servicing costs and the all the complicated stuff like dual mass flywheels, diesel particulate filters etc, a 1.6 diesel would be a brilliant car but not all things to all people.

[madasafish]

It was a FIAT. What do you epect? A decent design and reiaibility?

Joke.

I have run a Yaris diesel for 6 years on stop/start journeys averaging 56mph. Still going strong.

But then it's not designed and built in Italy.

[guest3469]

One mans meat is another mans poison, after all, millions of Italians cant ALL be wrong.  No manufacturer is immune to negative publicity and Fiat genuinely have taken a new direction.  I regularly drive a Fiat 500 Abarth and it is an excellent car  The design of the Fiat was superb, far better and more stylish than Focus Golf Astra etc, id had a new shape Civic that went through 3 clutches by 60k miles! and my Accord Sport GT started to slip at 70k miles.  In 25 years of driving they were the only cars that ever gave me clutch problems, so early, but then the Honda 2.2 diesel has a dodgy reputation for its Dual Mass Flywheels.  The Fiat was better put together than the Civic, by a mile, quieter, more comfortable.  But I wouldn't chance another Fiat, however id no qualms going to a Honda petrol.  The Fiat was a genuinely capable car, however my, like most peoples, preconceptions made me change it.  Odds are it would've ran for many years without issue, but I wasn't prepared to take a chance any more.  I gave it 1 and it let me down.  Based on my previous Honda experience, I shouldn't have bought another, BUT I trust the brand and know my Jazz wont let me down, I couldn't trust the Fiat for another minute.  That's what happens when you buy with your heart more than your head.

[guest3250]

The more I get used to it and also the more mine loosens up the less bothered I am about the small engine
the weak point is just at pull away - tricky to get that just right! If you allow the engine speed to dip
on pullaway it dies for a moment and seems gutless - if you over compensate it revs too much.
Smoothest is keeping it no lower than 1200rpm untill its pulling away nicely - then take it up just above
2500rpm before changing to 2nd - there is a fairly big gap between 1st and 2nd...
With practice I find I am fairly brisk driving like this, without too much clutch slip - it's a fine line at pullaway.
Also - I notice the engine doesn't sound bad for a little one - more gruff than I expected. For it's size it is not
at all bad on the whole!

[madasafish]

I regularly drive a Fiat 500 Abarth and it is an excellent car

Not made in Italy. Poland.

QED.

[guest3469]

I regularly drive a Fiat 500 Abarth and it is an excellent car

Not made in Italy. Poland.

QED.

And what? Geography determines the quality of the build of a car! Honda Civic, built in UK- bag of bolts, Honda Accord built in Japan, solid as a rock.  I would prefer to think that the quality of the design team and the amount of r+d would contribute more significantly to the overall quality of a car than the locus of its build.  However my intention in contributing to the thread was not to start a discussion on the merits or demerits of either Italian, UK or AN Others design or build performances, rather than to share with the other members my own experiences.   So my comments on a small capacity diesel are valid as are the experiences I have gained in 120k miles of Hondas and 30k miles in Fiat. 
As for my Jazz, its better put together than my Civic, but not as good as my Accord and that's good enough for me.
Pre conceptions are usually misconceptions

[guest2662]

SOB i own a fiat
  1300 cc turbo diesel qubo auto 2011, now you got me worried SOB  i hope it don't blow up on me]

[DV]

SOB i own a fiat
  1300 cc turbo diesel qubo auto 2011, now you got me worried SOB  i hope it don't blow up on me]

Before you turn off the engine let it run for 1 more minute to cool the turbo down.
At cold start don`t rev the engine immediately, wait for 20 sec to let the oil to reach every point in the engine and turbo and after you are good to go.

[guest2662]

thanks dv i take that on board.

[guest3469]

I think I was just unlucky with mine. On the Fiat forum, only one other owner had experienced early turbo issues. The turbo on my car was a Garrett one which are probably the best known turbo manufacturer with a great reputation.  Sometimes we forget we drive machines, and they break down. That's why a jumbo jet is several hundred million pounds, and don't break down.

[guest1521]

Lots of turbo breakdown is caused by poor lubrication of the turbo bearings mostly because of one or more of the following:

Engine oil too often past its due change.

Too many revs too soon after a cold start.

Engine switch-off too soon after high-ish revs. For example, after running on a motorway at 80+mph in top gear. Or after a steep hill with high revs in a lower gear.

The ANSWER after this sort of running is to let the engine run at low revs/light load, or let it idle, for just a minute or two before engine switch-off so the turbo cools enough for the oil not to carbonise (abrasive!) in the superhot turbo bearings.

Neglect to let it cool after being superhot just a few times and the turbo may appear to be OK for quite some time/miles - perhaps for many journeys - but it will fail much sooner than it otherwise would.