New Crosstar owner (also thanks to you)

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

Hi everyone, I’m a new happy owner of a Honda Jazz Crosstar 2025, Fjord Mist.

First off, I’d like to thank all of you as I have been reading this forum for quite some time before buying the Honda Jazz and you answered several questions and curiosities I had. Very useful, very much appreciated!!!

Just a couple of comments on the car: I’m used to Toyota hybrids as I have driven my brother-in-law Auris Touring many times and so far, I prefer the driving experience with the Honda Jazz. If you are gentle with the throttle, it’s extremely smooth and silent. I'm curious to see how the car behaves on the Alps though, I suspect it will howl like a wolf even at a moderate pace... The other plus is visibility: on the Jazz is great, while the Toyota Auris (now Corolla) is way lower and darker, you feel somehow suffocated, if I can use this expression.

I only drove 200 km and the calculated average is 3.9l/100km, which I consider already good as it’s cold in Milan these days and I mount all season Barum Quartaris tires (I would have preferred Falken, but this is what the Honda dealership proposed me as replacement of the original ones).

Regarding the color, I’d like to break a lance for the Fjord Mist. At the beginning I was skeptical as I saw several Surf Blue Crosstars in the past (and I didn’t like it at all) and I wasn't sure whether the Fjord Mist was noticeably different or not. For some reasons the Fjord Mist is not popular in Italy and me and my wife had to drive quite far to find a dealership with a Crosstar with this color, but it was worth the effort: we liked it immediately as it's more pale and greyish compared to the previous Surf Blue (and several people complimented me on the color, even though they generally don't like the car...). So, in case you are tempted by this color, make sure to see it on the car and not only on the small sample plate at the dealership.

[Lord Voltermore]

I'm curious to see how the car behaves on the Alps though, I suspect it will howl like a wolf even at a moderate pace..

Welcome.  No I think you will be pleasantly surprised.    I have driven my 2021 Mk4  (but not yet my 2024 car)  in the Italian Alps and the  Dolomites.  It has the power and particularly the  torque to easily  climb  main road passes   including ones unsuitable for trucks and caravans. Its high torque makes short but very steep sections on the apex a hair pin bends very easy.  .  On a long sustained steep  climb the engine may need to run for  longer and faster than it normally does  to keep the battery charged . This may seem noisy when compared its normal level of silence  but I dont find it any noisier than a conventional ICE car would be anyway if it needed to climb the same in a lower gear. 

Also I had no worries about the amount  of engine braking  when descending a long mountain pass.  Some owners  always use B mode  which gives a bit more engine braking effect but I use D mode.  I find D mode enough to keep the  car slowed  if you also touch the brakes occasionally. Not enough to overheat the brakes. Once when descending a pass I monitored  how often  I needed to brake ,in D mode ,compared to the 'conventional ' cars in front. It was less.
 
I also experimented briefly trying to keep speed down with engine braking alone, in B mode.  It sort of works and would be there if needed  in an emergency, but the engine speed can rise  to manic levels.   I think of it as similar to moderating your speed all the way down when walking down a steep  mountain. Breaking into a run can end in disaster .

I havnt driven  the Jazz over some of the  more extreme passes in Italy  but I've looked at photos and it had no trouble crossing similar passes in other countries.    I love mountains.

I hope in due course you will agree with me. And it may help others who may also be wondering.

   

[aphybrid]

I would like to see feedback about descending steep slopes. My experience was that engine sounds like a bag of nails.

[Lord Voltermore]

I would like to see feedback about descending steep slopes. My experience was that engine sounds like a bag of nails.

I agree, if you try to descend a  steep slope on engine braking/ regenerative braking alone the engine  can sound like a bag of nails.

  But IMO  that equivalent to coming down a mountain shuffling on your bottom. It can be done if your legs give out   but its not how you would normally  do it.      I'm conscious of the dangers of overheating brakes,  but modern disc brakes can cope quite well  unless you are racing  down.  Combined with the engine/regenerative braking   of D or B mode  you only need to brake briefly for a second or two, perhaps  every couple of hundred meters  or more    to keep your speed down  to a sensible speed   on any decent that vehicles are also able to climb .  IMO  there are very few long descents that are also very steep , and very few steep descents  that are also very long.   Porlock hill  is steep but its only  2.5 km long  with the steepest section even shorter. Any longer and you would be below sea level.    Driven reasonably sensibly this wouldnt overheat modern disc brakes.  If you really felt the need to descend porlock hill on engine/regenerative braking alone  it may be possible, but yes it would be sound like a bag of nails.  Why would you want to, You have brakes as well.

  . I have yet to experience any climb or descent the Jazz mk4 cannot cope with easily. Maybe a gas guzzler with a huge engine  might e climb a bit  better  but if its an automatic it would be equally,if not more , dependent on its brakes when descending. 

[dfecia]

Hi! I'm from Italy too (Turin) and I have a 2021 Jazz Crosstar.
Before Jazz I had a Auris hybrid (2010), in some way we've had the same choices... 

Jazz is generally very pleasant to drive, even un and down from mountains. But wants to be driven peacefully, the only "problem" I've noticed is that if you press too much on the throttle while climbing, the charge battery gets down to 2 bars, and the engine turns faster with more noise.
While climbing, fuel consumption is similar to Auris's, but while descending Jazz is better.
When battery is full and you drive in B, engine is very noisy but it breaks, it is like a classic car with a low gear. I remember Auris, on the same roads, the engine was as noisy but car was braking very little with B, was often necessary to use the pedal brake too. Jazz, instead, requires pedal brake quite rarely if you use B.

[coldstart]

sorry, somewhat off-topic:

When battery is full and you drive in B, engine is very noisy but it breaks, it is like a classic car with a low gear.

As soon as the HV battery is fully charged while in B-mode the Jazz has to "burn" the excess power from the generator otherwise.

My impression is, that Honda kind of simulates a retarder while in B-mode:

I think they use the power from the generator to turn the ICE via the electric motor to consume some of that surplus energy.
That's why the engine revs go up "sky high". Much higher - and imho independent of actual speed - so it cannot be a fixed connection by clutch as in engine drive.

As soon as I switch to D the "retarder effect" vanishes instantly (as does the additional braking) and the car is silent again


back on topic:

@R. Daneel Olivaw:  Congratulations on your new car! Enjoy the ride!

[dfecia]

As soon as the HV battery is fully charged while in B-mode the Jazz has to "burn" the excess power from the generator otherwise.

It's true, that's just what it does.

As soon as I switch to D the "retarder effect" vanishes instantly (as does the additional braking) and the car is silent again

Switching in D is the same that you cold do passing to a higher gear on a classic car. It breaks less, and you have to use the brake pedal if you have to. As a classic car, with a higher gear the engine is more silent.

[stefan]

Interesting. Does it show "EV" on the dashboard when in "retarder effect"? What happens on the power flow chart in that moment? Never experienced this.

[coldstart]

Good points!

Actually I've never really looked at the diagram during this condition.
(and I couldn't tell if "EV" was lit either)

I will have to check these things the next time I'm driving downhill for a longer period.

Actually it doesn't take very much to reach this point (HV battery completely charged).
I'd say a descent of approximately 3 km will suffice.

[dfecia]

Interesting. Does it show "EV" on the dashboard when in "retarder effect"? What happens on the power flow chart in that moment? Never experienced this.

Yes, it shows EV. The engine turns fast, but no fuel is used. The engine is pulled by the electric motor that uses the electric current generated.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

Thanks for all you comments and feedback, I'll give you mine after the first trip to the mountains.

[stefan]

Thanks, both. After some experimenting, I was able to replicate the "retarder effect" in my multi-story parking lot on the way down. Due to the low speeds, the regenerative energy wasn’t that high, and the engine didn’t rev past what seemed like 2,000 rpm. It sounded different, but didn’t sound like a bag of nails to me  - more like a bus transmission. The power flow chart showed EV mode and regenerative braking.

After replicating it, we had a few days with temperatures below -10C, and the engine was running constantly to keep the cabin warm. The battery stayed at 10 bars almost the entire time. I noticed that in this weather, the car performed this "retarder effect" quite often, regardless of whether I used B or D mode during deceleration. I find it very smart and cool , it essentially mimics engine braking using the generator motor.

Also, welcome and congrats R. Daneel Olivaw!

[dfecia]

After replicating it, we had a few days with temperatures below -10C, and the engine was running constantly to keep the cabin warm. The battery stayed at 10 bars almost the entire time. I noticed that in this weather, the car performed this "retarder effect" quite often, regardless of whether I used B or D mode during deceleration.

Yes, it can happen both in D and in B. It derives from battery status: if battery cannot accept more charge, because it is already at 10 bars, you will have the "retarder effect".
What changes is that if you are in B, you require a more powerful brake, and the engine turns faster. In D, the engine turns lower and you may hardly notice it.

[coldstart]

@R Daneel Olivaw: Welcome to the forum!

(btw what a great homage to Isaac Asimov!)