Honda Jazz, 2004, automatic, mysterious problem

[sinisake]

Hi, my name is Sinisa, and i am new here.

I hope some of you guys maybe could help me. My auto mechanics, exactly, 2 of them, are confused, and can't diagnose problem, yet.

I am driving beautiful Honda Jazz model, with automatic transmission, from 2004.

Before 12 months, or so, i have experienced strange problem. I will try to describe it, as better as i can.


Sometimes, during the driving (i have tried to find some rule, without success!) the car starts to behave strangely - the RPM number jumps (even without pushing the acceleration pedal/gas!), the indicator of the choosen mode (i am in D (drive), always), starts to blink, the car starts to SLOWING DOWN/losing power, and even the pushing of the gas - doesn't help. Sometimes, this takes few seconds, and car suddenly goes back to normal behaviour. But, sometimes, like the last time, i have to stop the car, and turn it on, again. Then, everything is fine, except check engine indicator.

Sometimes, after these strange episodes, check engine indicator remains silent, but sometimes, like, again, the last time, the indicator stays turned on. My mecanics have read the error codes few times. First time, it was related to exhaust gasses, the last time, before month or so - the error code indicated problem with the automatic transmission...


The last mechanic, before 4 months, have cleaned up the EGR valve - i found out, after some online researching, that Jazz from that period (mk1 version, 2004, i think), can have problems with the EGR valves. Also, he replaced spark plugs, with the new ones, just in case...

Luckily, the problem disappeared, temporarily, BUT, before month or so, it started again!


Before few days, the incident was serious, the car have slowed down from 100km/h to 0, no matter what i've tried, the gas/acceleration didn't worked, and i had to stop the car. After i turned it on, all is working fine, again!

The check engine is, of course, turned on now (i will provide error code as soon as i get to my mechanic, but he will not be free until the next week, unfortunatelly).


Luckily, i have recorded short video from the last incident, so, maybe it could help. Maybe some of you had similar/same problems.


Is it really just EGR valve, which should be replaced, or can it be something else, more serious?


Thanks in advance!

Video:

P.S. Check engine indicator is turned off, again, so i don't have error code. In the last few days, car works perfectly! Very strange, and i feel, small problem... 

[sinisake]

Ok, it seems that problem is veeery rare, BUT i found ONE online CASE with the exactly same symptoms:
https://www.justanswer.com/uk-car/7cwq0-jazz-fit-hi-there-i-strange-problem-honda.html

Owner even made the video:

So, EXACTLY THE SAME ISSUE. PCM replacing didn't help, as it seems...

[guest334]

Do NOT spend any money on parts, find a local car electrician who will be able to diagnose the fault/ faults.
What change just before this particular issue arose?

[embee]

I noticed in that video that the "D" light goes out when the drive is lost,  suggesting to me that it might be a poor contact in the gear selection circuitry somewhere,  the system is losing the "D" instruction rather than actual drive having a fault.
I might be completely wrong.
Does it  happen only in D or does it also happen in S? Could it be bad contacts in the gear selector lever itself? I don't know any details of what the components are like so pure guesswork.
Connectors are always my first check.

[sinisake]

Do NOT spend any money on parts, find a local car electrician who will be able to diagnose the fault/ faults.
What change just before this particular issue arose?

Problem is: there is no competent eletrician in town, AND, check engine light is active just sometimes... Now, check engine will not turn on, at all, so - no error codes to read?! I can't remember any change before this strange issue...

Guy who worked (and will be working again) on this car - tried all diagnostic methods he knows - he got nothing, except VSS sensor malfunction code, and he replaced it... Also, if i didn't mentioned / spark plugs replaced, EGR valve, too, ABS system fixed.... all wireings checked... no avail...

I noticed in that video that the "D" light goes out when the drive is lost,  suggesting to me that it might be a poor contact in the gear selection circuitry somewhere,  the system is losing the "D" instruction rather than actual drive having a fault.
I might be completely wrong.
Does it  happen only in D or does it also happen in S? Could it be bad contacts in the gear selector lever itself? I don't know any details of what the components are like so pure guesswork.
Connectors are always my first check.

I will test it in S mode, soon, too. Before, D indicator has blinking... now it just turns off. AND in my case, car loses power, sometimes, after these episodes, gas pedal doesn't react as it should... I got very high RPM, but very low speed (compared to RPM).

P.S. when i switch to "manual" mode, and when i try to change speed on steering wheel - same happens. So, no gearbox itself issue, as it seems...

Thank you, guys!!!

EDIT 2> What is happening here. If i understand correctly, PCM turns off gearbox completelly, as car is not moving at all, because some sensor sends wrong signal to it, OR PCM itself is damaged (cold solder joint, or something...)

[embee]

I would guess the vehicle speed sensor VSS is critical to the function of the transmission.  If it had a VSS fault are you sure it was the sensor itself or the wiring? If it is a wiring issue it would still be present after changing the sensor.
Just guessing.....

[sinisake]

Maybe. But, wiring is checked, as my mechanic said... I have a feeling that error codes are little...random (started from "exhaust gas problems", "automatic transmission problem", etc, etc... to "VS sensor"), and thrown errors are not so usefull, as it seems.

Very rare, strange issue, very hard for diagnostics. I have a trust in last, current mechanic (3 of them are gave up, already, this one communicate with electricians, too) and believe that just few things are left for checking...

[wongr]

I had similar problems and after much trial and error, found out it was some faulty ignition coils. Try taking out each ignition coil and check the metal connector inside. Some of them will have corroded or gone completely if you compare them together.

[sinisake]

I had similar problems and after much trial and error, found out it was some faulty ignition coils. Try taking out each ignition coil and check the metal connector inside. Some of them will have corroded or gone completely if you compare them together.

Thanks, i have heard stories about faulty ignition coils in jazz from one guy...I have asked my mechanic, but i guess - he already checked them all.

[DV]

When was the last time you checked the gearbox oil level? If there`s low oil pressure the gearbox won`t operate as it should.

In the past, I`ve seen a different type of automatic gearbox where the low oil level caused the high engine rev.

[sinisake]

When was the last time you checked the gearbox oil level? If there`s low oil pressure the gearbox won`t operate as it should.

In the past, I`ve seen a different type of automatic gearbox where the low oil level caused the high engine rev.

My last mechanic, most enthusiastic and knowledgeable one, checked it, too. I have asked should i maybe, replace gearbox oil, but he said that oil itself looks pretty good (so, i guess that level is ok, too).

Btw, in last 4 days - no strange episodes. I have even made 200+ km, one day (small trip to capital of my region). I am confused, totally...

P.S. My mechanic noticed small damage on main relay, so it is replaced, too. No avail. Too much trial and error, but, there is no other way, it seems, with problems like this...

Contact issue somewhere - it looks like this. But it is extremelly hard to find - WHERE.
I guess that, after checking and eventually replacing PCM, there is nothing (?) left...

[sinisake]

Does it  happen only in D or does it also happen in S?

Well, i have tested a little... and it is interesting. It happens in S mode, too (RPM jumps, temporary loosing of power, and if i press the gas pedal - car loose all the power, and i have to stop it), BUT... first few times, there was no turning off of S mode. The indicator light remains....

LOL, this is for some honda engineer.

Hm, last two days - no problem, if i use S mode. Interesting...i will test further, for sure.