Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure

[ninanina]

Did you buy it as an approved Honda? if so it should come with a fairly comprehensive one year warranty

I would argue the case with your supplying dealer, pointing out how little use you’ve had of the car and do your best to get a courtesy car provided. I would also speak with Honda UK again telling them how disappointed you are that you have this failure so soon after your purchase

[kfman]

thank you for your advice. I will try even with little hope.

[BobM]

Kfman - see https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/what-are-a-consumers-legal-rights-when-buying-a-car

A definition of "reasonable time" and "significant inconvenience" may be an issue. See https://www.businesscompanion.info/focus/car-traders-and-consumer-law/part-2-consumer-rights-act#Repairorreplacement for business-related view.

[CtrlAltDel]

What kind of errors do people get when this fault kicks in?

Today my Crosstar broke down on me, AA came and of course by the minute they came the car started again. They told me to drive straight to Honda as he expects it to happen again. It drove fine there.

Prior to the AA arriving , it was indeed lit up like a Christmas tree for 45 mins, and the brake errors flashed up one after the other (I have the subtitles on, because I am stupid) The engine wouldn’t start but the radio etc all were happily kicking in.


I’m leaning towards 12v battery issues but the car gets driven daily , and had a bloody good drive yesterday in particular.  But it’s a 2020 Crosstar, 18k miles,  it’s going to be recalled , so I don’t know what to think.

I am awaiting a call from the general manager as I already have a lengthy complaint in regarding the stupid low/high temp turtle , and I’ll need to update them on today

[Wonder]

Hi everyone, a piece of advice because I'm starting to worry, my car is 4 years old (2020)
but I have very few kilometers 18000 (about 11184 mph) and it has never had problems, in Italy on the official Honda website there is no recall planned for my car, now I have to start making some longer trips and I don't want to find myself with problems,
can you tell me which cars have been recalled (chassis number year)?
Is it a problem that only affects right-hand drive cars or is it a general problem?
Thanks everyone for the information.

(Sorry for the mistakes I used Google translate)

[Marco1979]

On page 42 there are VIN numbers displayed. Seems to be MS, NS and PS at position 9 and 10 which are affected.
Italy might be later due to a more optimal climate (failure seems earlier when it is wet and cold)!

[chicksee]

What kind of errors do people get when this fault kicks in

(my car jazz Crosstar 2020)
I had the icons ep and es (in a circle) which lasted until I restarted the car but then came back on few days after
Approx another week went by and numerous icons flashed up and foot brake was difficult to press down.
From other posts on here I realised what the problem was and after a diagnostic test it was confirmed.

[Wonder]

On page 42 there are VIN numbers displayed. Seems to be MS, NS and PS at position 9 and 10 which are affected.
Italy might be later due to a more optimal climate (failure seems earlier when it is wet and cold)!

Then mine should also be at risk it has the MS code 

[rodney88]

I also have the exactly the same problem, the recal code is 6AF. God knows when it'll be done. Are we expected to be without a car until then, or will it take a fatal accident for Honda to pull their finger out.
Manufacturers cite parts problems, but if the cars are still being produced, I think they should stop the production line and use those kits destined for new cars instead of risking their customers lives!

[pauly58]

I wonder how many of those affected by this have reported it here  https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

This has been referred to before. From gov.uk :

A serious safety defect is something ...... that happens suddenly and without warning.

Things are not classed as a serious safety defect if ...... you’re warned about them by warning lights, noticeable changes in handling and unusual noises.

So far, all reported failures are preceeded by warning lights and messages, so probably don't meet the DVSA criteria for a "serious safety defect"

Honda have also stated in the letter reproduced here …
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=16448.msg144822#msg144822
… that this is not a safety issue.

“… we want to reassure you that this is not a safety defect.  The braking system will automatically default to a fail-safe mode which meets the braking distance regulations and ensure your vehicle can be stopped safely.
We recognise that the braking sensation will feel different, but the fail-safe mode means that your vehicle will operate with the required braking distance and stop.”

Presumably that’s what they’ll have told DVSA.

That seems somewhat disigenuous on Honda's part. When my Jazz developed this "brake feel simulator" total failure, the "fail-safe mode" meant no servo assistance at all. The brake pedal went down right to the floor before there was solid resistance. And I mean solid. No feel. Very little effect either.

I did try to drive the Jazz a short distance from its parking space. Eeek! It took extreme foot pressure on the brake pedal to bring the Jazz to a stop from about 5 mph after a distance of about 20 yards. I am quite fit for a pensioner but no way is my right leg strong enough to make the vehicle "operate with the required braking distance and stop" as Honda puts it.

If I couldn't manage, how could a woman driver possibly operate that foot brake without assistance. I don't call that "fail-safe" at all. The Jazz was undriveable. I would not have been able to drive it safely to my nearest Honda workshop, a distance of less than 10 miles. Through heavy urban traffic, without crashing? Absurd. Way too risky.

The AA had to recover the Jazz on a towing dolley because the AA's agent said it was "not driveable" and he put that in his Report.

The dash warning lights and accompanying "bong" sounds also indicated that other safety systems including ABS, and even steering assistance / driver safety aids were now inop.

"Fail-safe"? Really? That is utter rubbish IMO. I can't see how Honda can possibly prove it. Was a Jazz with "brake feel simulator" total failure tested independently at MIRA? Is there an independent engineer's Report that Honda can disclose?

We had ours fail this morning, I can only agree with Spodric's post, it became undriveable, ES EP & just about every warning light came on. The brake pedal went nearly to the floor with no feel, then would suddenly come up again. I couldn't release the handbrake & I had to turn it on & off a few times. The AA have taken it off to our dealer & Enterprise are delivering a car this afternoon but only for three days, which seems off as the car is still in warranty, hopefully the dealer will give us a replacement car. I'll update when we have some news.

[chicksee]

Another problem is the wait for the part, I’ve been waiting 2 weeks now and I’ve been informed part not available until at least 20th Feb.
Honda no help as they say my 2020 Crosstar is too old so no courtesy car even though I’m still within 5 year warranty which I paid for.
This will likely be the last Honda I buy.

[FMIB]

Not particularly worried on my car at this stage as it only reaches 3 years old in Nov this year and should it fail, I am confident it will be replaced free of charge due to the good work from many owners on this forum.

It is a MY23, manufactured in 2022 and has the PS code in its VIN, however neither the Government website or Honda's website shows a recall for this vehicle.
 
Its not clear to me if this an across the board recall based on the MS,NS and PS reference in the VIN number, a staggered recall with later production dates to be recalled in due course, or my car is not affected.

[Nicksey]

Not particularly worried on my car at this stage as it only reaches 3 years old in Nov this year and should it fail, I am confident it will be replaced free of charge due to the good work from many owners on this forum.

It is a MY23, manufactured in 2022 and has the PS code in its VIN, however neither the Government website or Honda's website shows a recall for this vehicle.
 
Its not clear to me if this an across the board recall based on the MS,NS and PS reference in the VIN number, a staggered recall with later production dates to be recalled in due course, or my car is not affected.

Same boat as me. I do have the 5 year warranty, and as you say.. the forum and other publicity that has been generated in the media about this issue means it is out there for all to see, and Honda do seem to be acting on it.

[mish664]

Stumbled across this thread, as have been experiencing the exact same issues with initial intermittent ES and EP warning lights, and now on all the time with difficulty with depressing the brake. Guess I'm in the same boat. I'm now outside the 3 year warranty period too which sucks, any advice on how to proceed?

[Nicksey]

Stumbled across this thread, as have been experiencing the exact same issues with initial intermittent ES and EP warning lights, and now on all the time with difficulty with depressing the brake. Guess I'm in the same boat. I'm now outside the 3 year warranty period too which sucks, any advice on how to proceed?

If you follow the thread of this lengthy topic, you will see that people who have had this issue AND been outside the warranty 3 years, have been successful in receiving free repair.
My advice would be to print off the relevant documentation that others have posted here, and the Gov.uk recall link and show all this to your dealer. Also, I would contact Honda UK directly too.