Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure

[peteo48]

Excellent post Lord Voltermore and I particularly agree with the points you make about other scandals. It's a corporate thing and I am not sure another company would necessarily have handled this differently. That doesn't mean I exonerate Honda - I absolutely don't - but there is a wider issue of corporate accountability at play here and in other scandals.

[5thcivic]

I agree that we are now talking about rip-off Britain as a fact by more and more people, look at the headlines of the water companies increases wanted to rectify the underinvestment of all our charges disappearing in dividends to foreign owners for many years.

I think the Honda engineers are still doing a fine job, the problem may be a level of management that imposes cost restraints that improve short term balance sheets at the expense of long term customer satisfaction that turns out to be entirely self defeating, a Western management trait not associated with Japan - so far.

Getting to the point of pulling out of a market because it is not worth while anymore is hardly a measure of management success.

[Spodric]

With all due respect to my learned friend Lord Voltermore:

1. The Honda 5 Year Care Package (that includes the Warranty) is a contract between me and Honda (UK), defined as Honda Motor Europe Limited t/a Honda (UK).

2. TWG Services Limited administers the "programme" (i.e. the 5 year package) on behalf of Honda (UK)

3. TWG is indeed a call centre with very little discretion, and slender legal knowledge, if any.

4. I am now dealing with Honda Motor Europe Limited directly by way of "escalation".

5. The person who contacted me from Honda Motor Europe Limited had never seen a copy of the Honda 5 Year Care Package document, despite which they have rejected my claim for reimbursement of extended car hire fees. Such rejection appears to be based on company policy, not contract terms.

6. I haven't heard anything further from Honda Motor Europe Limited since 14 May.

7. The response so far from Honda Motor Europe Limited is disappointing both from a legal perspective and a customer care perspective.

8. I am not going to go away. I know my legal rights. I will go to Court if necessary. Watch this space.

[Jayt43]

The allowance for vehicle hire seems very stingy (if I'm looking at the most up-to-date doc). Basically £200 for a maximum of 5 day's hire? That's ridiculous! Compact / economy cars are £55 upwards for the most basic vehicle nowadays...

The accompanying notes also cover Honda (to a degree) in case of parts not being available:

"Note that Repair time for the purposes of this Part 5.1 does not include delays in commencing a repair for any reason (including waiting for parts to arrive)".

Which seems especially unfair if there's a parts shortage due to a recall for 500,000 cars in Japan.

I would argue this represents bad faith as delays may be so unreasonable - depending upon the time frame - that they constitute an intentional abandonment of the contract by the issuer.

******************************************

VEHICLE HIRE
5.1 Honda shall reimburse you up to £40 (including VAT) a day (up to a maximum of five days) towards the cost of a hire vehicle provided that:

5.1.2 you obtain Honda Administration's consent before arranging your hire vehicle; and

[Lord Voltermore]

With all due respect to my learned friend Lord Voltermore:

.I agree I have taken a simplistic view and maybe not fully aware of exactly where the bucks stop.    Honda are ultimately responsible for their contract,and any stinginess  and unfair get out clauses, .Its  Hondas business future and profitability that  will suffer the consequences of any damage to their reputation for reliability and customer care. A strange attitude for a company who use a (past?) reputation  to charge premium prices  .

Honda have given TWG the deceptive title of 'Honda administration'  . Its easy to think you are dealing with Honda, when in fact you may be dealing with their 'guard dogs'  ,a second line of defence after the dealerships.  However limited their knowledge  and discretion I feel sure TWG  will use the ghet out clauses s set by Honda to try and deflect as many warranty claims as possible.   TWG might have  special department dealing with Honda claims,and liaising  with Honda,  but the same staff might be variously  'Honda administration',' RAC administration'  , or another car make administration, depending which phone call they answer.        You still have the hurdle  of getting your claim 'escalated' beyond TWG to be considered by Honda themselves.  And even this is only  Honda Japans third line of defence - Honda Motor Europe Ltd.    If Honda chose to treat customers badly they have only themselves to blame for the consequences. And the court cases.

It reinforces my view that when a problem is big enough to endanger the  whole  future of a business or organisation,those executives who tried to protect their backs from any blame, or hide the facts or consequences from their superiors, or preserve short term profits, or kick the ball further down the road   will eventually be held to blame for the disaster. As with the many scandals  now coming to light in the UK.

I hope Honda  Motor Europe are reading this thread and taking it seriously.

[Karoq]

I must admit that my eNiro has had ONE warranty problem. Very noisy O/S/R window motor.
Replaced very quickly with no fuss by Hendy Bournemouth.
On the free service they also noticed that the plastic undertray that protects the battery had a big chunk out of one corner. Obviously the previous owner had thrown a brick (or something similar) onto the tray and knocked the corner off.
Again it was replaced with no fuss and F.O.C. and it wasn't even a warranty claim.
10/10 for Kia and Hendy.

[Spodric]

Sign of the times?

Bristol Honda (part of the HSH Motor Group) has sent me an email announcing that it has added 2 new franchises - OMODA and JAECOO.

I hadn't heard of them. Google tells me that these are relatively new brands of SUV, from the Chery car maker owned by the Chinese state. Chery also has a JV manufacturing Jaguars and Land Rovers in China.

In addition to HSH's Honda, Mitsubishi*, MG and GWM franchises.

Honda beware. Honda cars (including used cars) are likely too expensive to be competitive against these Chinese imports. I agree with posters like Lord Voltermore that Honda is trading on a past reputation for reliability and low running costs, which is why it appeals mainly to the older generation in the UK. Honda doesn't seem to care about preserving that reputation. Honda is taking UK customer brand loyalty for granted.

Based on my experience of the Mk 4 Jazz, build quality and reliability seem rather average. Our previous Mk2 Jazz had zero issues during 10 years ownership (except for the Takata airbag recall). Customer relations are going down the drain. This is not going to end well.

[*Mitsubishi already having pulled out of the UK. Is Honda about to do the same?]

[Spodric]

Update - Honda Motor Europe Limited emailed me today.

My claim for extended car hire loss has been rejected. Their 2 reasons are:

1. "The extended guarantee covers a courtesy car for 72 hours and the extension of the Enterprise car hire was not approved by Honda (UK)."

I did contact Honda Administration to try to get advance approval for extended car hire. They refused. Their reasons included (a) We should travel by train instead; and (b) they only extend the car hire beyond 72 hours if the warranty repair takes 8 hours or more. They asserted that the "brake simulator unit" repair takes only 2.4 hours. [No mention anywhere in the Honda 5 Year Care Package of this exclusion based on time allowed for repair.]   

2. "Consequential loss can only be claimed due to the failure of parts not covered by these Terms and Conditions; therefore, it is not indemnified by this policy."

Wow. That really is creative, from a legal perspective. My interpretation of the T&Cs is somewhat different.

Ironically, and inconsistently, one of Honda's original reasons for rejecting the claim being that the faulty "brake simulator unit" wasn't covered by the Warranty anyway, because it isn't a "material [or] manufacturing defect." If that was factually true, which I dispute, using Honda's most recent argument, Honda should pay / indemnify all consequential loss.

Effectively, Honda are challenging me to sue them. Gloves off.

[JJazz]

What sort of mileage are we talking about?.

[Spodric]

What sort of mileage are we talking about?.

13,956 recorded miles on my Jazz the day the brakes failed.

[madasafish]

If  you are going to court, just make sure some motoring journalists are informed in detail so eh publicity is national....

[Nicksey]

Sign of the times?

Bristol Honda (part of the HSH Motor Group) has sent me an email announcing that it has added 2 new franchises - OMODA and JAECOO.

I hadn't heard of them. Google tells me that these are relatively new brands of SUV, from the Chery car maker owned by the Chinese state. Chery also has a JV manufacturing Jaguars and Land Rovers in China.

In addition to HSH's Honda, Mitsubishi*, MG and GWM franchises.

Honda beware. Honda cars (including used cars) are likely too expensive to be competitive against these Chinese imports. I agree with posters like Lord Voltermore that Honda is trading on a past reputation for reliability and low running costs, which is why it appeals mainly to the older generation in the UK. Honda doesn't seem to care about preserving that reputation. Honda is taking UK customer brand loyalty for granted.

Based on my experience of the Mk 4 Jazz, build quality and reliability seem rather average. Our previous Mk2 Jazz had zero issues during 10 years ownership (except for the Takata airbag recall). Customer relations are going down the drain. This is not going to end well.

[*Mitsubishi already having pulled out of the UK. Is Honda about to do the same?]

I had to take my Jazz in today to have the drivers side mirror motor replaced under warranty, having already the passenger side one done earlier. Anyway, during the fitting, I had a wonder around the forecourt. A new prefab type addition to the dealership (DM Keith of Grimsby) has been added to the main building. Parked outside this new unit.. the full range of the new electric BYD vehicles.

[Jinbeizame]

Let me conclude how my Jazz's Brake Operating Simulator saga has ended. My Jazz was towed away to Honda dealer on 29 April by AA, and has been repaired today (24/05). In the meantime, I wrote a letter to Honda UK Customer relation, which was quickly responded to confirm that all related costs would be paid by them as goodwill gesture (including a BMW rental car). Although this outcome looks great they are not coming forward with possible Product Recall ( I think we Honda users really want). Anyway I realize that most recent cars are designed equipped with highly expensive digital devices such as BOS. If you are out of warranty you are likely to be asked to pay £2,000 parts plus labour. This is the lesson I learned most of all. 

[Lincolnshire Rambler]

I have no doubt the the new generation of cars made in china are going to be a new step change in the way people buy cars and how they are treated ? Look at how well received Kia cars are with 7 year warrantries - how sharp are their designs and build qualities . China can build anything to a spec and price level - if you want the least cost you can find it -and tech- well what device are you reading thus on — made in china or parts are..we do need cars made without the massive overheads costs of european manufacturing who will always sell you things you cant choose not to buy by how the cars are made

[CtrlAltDel]

I have had my heart on a Crosstar for a year now, looking at used at dealers. Now I’m absolutely terrified this could happen! 😨 Do I need to stay away?