Author Topic: Engine Vibration on Start-Up  (Read 242537 times)

coravel

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2024, 03:13:15 PM »
Personally I wouldn't trust anything a dealer told me.  I once bought a brand new Fiesta that jumped out of second gear almost every time I descended a hill or went around a bend.  The Ford dealer refused to accept it was happening and when I asked if I could accompany the dealer or mechanic when he tested it I was told their insurance wouldn't allow it. 

Jazzik

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2024, 04:23:07 PM »
Dealer says that several CR-V and Jazz e:hev have these symptoms.

I'm curious what the answer of the technicians would be to the following question: Why do several CR-V and Jazz e:hev have these symptoms and many other CR-V and Jazz e:hev (ours...) do not have them.
Different engines?

Personally I wouldn't trust anything a dealer told me.  I once bought a brand new Fiesta that jumped out of second gear almost every time I descended a hill or went around a bend.  The Ford dealer refused to accept it was happening and when I asked if I could accompany the dealer or mechanic when he tested it I was told their insurance wouldn't allow it.

Fortunately, you no longer have to deal with a Ford dealer!
If nothing goes right, go left!

5thcivic

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2024, 04:24:15 PM »
If it really sounds as bad as people in this thread have described and others (myself included) have never seen anything like it, it is an easy way out for a dealer to say it is normal and just wait until out of warantee for anything worse to happen. I think I would want a cast iron letter from Honda UK to fall back on?

Marco1979

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2024, 04:33:02 PM »
I plan on making and sharing a video of the sound. It was horrendous :o. I hope it was a one time event, but if not you will know!

coldstart

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2024, 05:31:26 PM »
If you google "timing chain rattle honda" you will find several videos and other sources.

It seems that the "variable valve time control" (VTC) can produce these short rattlings on cold starts:

This is a very technical description for older Accords and CR-Vs (including a Honda TSB number):
https://www.underhoodservice.com/tech-tip-honda-accord-cr-v-rattle-start/

If you google "vtc rattle honda jazz" you will even find the Honda technical bulletin 16-088 (direct pdf download link) for Honda Fit models between 2015-2016 with the following fault description:

SYMPTOM

At cold start up, the engine rattles loudly for about 2 seconds. This may be intermittent and occurs on cold starts where the engine typically has not been started for 6-8 hours.


@Marco1979 and @Jayt43:  Sound familiar?  :D

It seems possible that later models may be affected in the same way.

Addendum:

@Marco1979 and Jayt43:  Please check the oil level!

According to https://www.underhoodservice.com/honda-oil-system-inspection-procedures/ a low motor oil level can cause all sorts of unwanted things (including sounds because the oil pressure activated tensioners aren't working).

Checking the motor oil level (and topping it up) is an easy "repair"  :)


 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2024, 08:59:43 PM by coldstart »

Marco1979

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2024, 08:48:36 PM »
I don’t think it is the vtc. The sound was louder, more metallic and lasted much longer. Also the car was shaking/trembling. I’m unable to find something similar online, so it is hard to explain.

coravel

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2024, 09:11:27 PM »
 
Personally I wouldn't trust anything a dealer told me.  I once bought a brand new Fiesta that jumped out of second gear almost every time I descended a hill or went around a bend.  The Ford dealer refused to accept it was happening and when I asked if I could accompany the dealer or mechanic when he tested it I was told their insurance wouldn't allow it.

Fortunately, you no longer have to deal with a Ford dealer!
[/quote]

First and last.   ;D

Lord Voltermore

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2024, 11:07:23 AM »
I have had well maintained ICE  petrol and diesel engines in the past that occasionally ran roughly for a few seconds  on start up.  A quick blip on the throttle , perhaps without realising you are doing it , and they settled down immediately

With the Hybrid the ICE  starts in  a way that is sort of  independent of the driver. Sometimes it may not need to start at all ,  and when it runs it choses its own slow speed.    You  typically dont  use the throttle until moving off, and even then the engine may not speed up.   

Is it  surprising that sometimes it might take slightly  longer for the  engine to settle down and run smoothly ?

  I'm speculating a bit here but I can imagine quite simple things that  that might make a cold (or recently quite hot) engine falter slightly at first.   Such as fuel pressure not yet built up to be equal to all fuel injectors,  or fuel not vapourising  equally well in every cylinder. 
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Kremmen

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2024, 01:00:48 PM »
I'm the king of low mileage, still under 4k from Sep 21

I do start the engine periodically or go for a run if the weather is OK to charge the HV battery and so far it's been as sweet as a nut

However, I get the keys to my new house in a few weeks and it's going to get used for DIY and tip runs. It won't know what's hit it :)
Let's be careful out there !

5thcivic

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2024, 06:02:38 PM »
Can I have the crown please? Sep 22 and 1218 miles.   :o

Jazzik

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2024, 07:57:14 PM »
I do a little more by  per year ... :D
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Jayt43

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2024, 06:42:15 AM »
I don’t think it is the vtc. The sound was louder, more metallic and lasted much longer. Also the car was shaking/trembling. I’m unable to find something similar online, so it is hard to explain.

Yes, the whole car shaking is the same for me. Like an earthquake hitting for a split second or two, then back to normal!! My oil level is checked once a week. The first time it happened was approx. 500km after its last service, so the new oil was still clear!

For me it's interesting that, if I use the car as normal (i.e. 4-5 times a day) and park overnight, no issues at all. It runs very sweetly. But if I left it for a week without using, I'm sure the fault would occur again. 52k km on the engine so far, with oil changes every 10k (as I planned to keep her for a long time and pass on to my daughter as her 1st car).

Booked in for fault finding and a separate 12V power socket fix, but appointment only in 2 weeks time.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2024, 06:43:50 AM by Jayt43 »

Nicksey

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2024, 09:06:36 AM »
Can I have the crown please? Sep 22 and 1218 miles.   :o

Wow!

Why would you spend so much on an expensive car like a Jazz... only to leave it on the drive!

Kremmen

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2024, 09:09:40 AM »
 My neighbour in London had a 55 plate Fiesta and did about 50 miles a year

Tip and service/MOT

The Fiesta fag socket must be permanently powered because he had a dash top solar panel that kept the battery charged
Let's be careful out there !

Lord Voltermore

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Re: Engine Vibration on Start-Up
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2024, 11:33:18 AM »
I don’t think it is the vtc. The sound was louder, more metallic and lasted much longer. Also the car was shaking/trembling. I’m unable to find something similar online, so it is hard to explain.


For me it's interesting that, if I use the car as normal (i.e. 4-5 times a day) and park overnight, no issues at all. It runs very sweetly. But if I left it for a week without using, I'm sure the fault would occur again.

That would fit in with my theory about the high pressure fuel rail. The pressure, and possibly the fuel level might be gradually dropping. Not enough to cause any problems  if only left for a few days, but after a week  the car might be initially starting with an  insufficient fuel/air mixture . The new and efficient engine might still  fire up immediately  and run roughly on a couple of its cylinders  until its firing on all cylinders.   

On conventional cars any  lost pressure  can be built up while you are cranking on the starter motor. It may sometimes take slightly longer than usual before it starts at all, but would you necessarily notice or worry if the car doesnt fire up  instantly - especially  in cold weather ?   

With the hybrid  you dont  directly start the engine. You initialise a start up procedure but a computer decides if and when it needs to start and stop the ICE.     I suspect Honda, and probably other makers, have a bit of a dilemma .   They can probably detect if an engine  starts as instructed and  whether its running badly.  If it happens when the engine should by now  be up and running properly  there may be ECU metering changes, or serious red  warning lights and the car  comes to a stop.   :-[ 

But if an engine occasionally runs badly  on start up but they know it  will clear itself within a few seconds  they wont want to hit any panic lights and shutdown for those.   It may be something thats extremely difficult to eliminate  entirely either by  mechanical or computer solutions.  Hence a bit of a " they all do that"  fudge. 



 My neighbour in London had a 55 plate Fiesta and did about 50 miles a year

Tip and service/MOT

The Fiesta fag socket must be permanently powered because he had a dash top solar panel that kept the battery charged
I have a dash top solar panel  which plugs into the OBD11  port on the Jazz .  I havnt needed to use it much, but the car did start OK  after  being unused during January and February.      The port is not that easy to reach for regular use  but it may be a solution for some. 
My IQ test came back negative

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