Flat 12V battery

[dave-a-a]

3 days ago I put my 2020 Jazz SR away in my garage and switched off. As far as I could tell all was as usual, the headlights were on (the light switch default switch position is auto); I think they went off after I switched the engine off and got out of the car - always have before.
Next day the battery was completely dead. All the doors (including the hatch) were closed; nothing inside the car taking power & cabin lights off.
I have a jump start battery; when I started the car all the warning lights came on and stayed on. The manual suggested driving a short distance at above 20mph, but this had no effect. I then connected a battery charger for about 5 hours, then tried again. Still all the warning lights, and another short drive didn't help.
Left the car in the drive (charger not connected) and searched through this website for answers (my local Honda dealership has changed to Kia and weren't helpful) but found nothing relevant. After maybe an hour I went out to the car and found it was back to normal with no warning lights.
I assume the system detected a slightly higher battery voltage than normal immediately after charging, and after a while the voltage reduced to normal limits, but can anyone suggest why the battery died? I am now taking care to manually switch headlights off before stopping the car.

[sportse]

The Jazz batteries are supposed to be mostly ok - they are normal lead acid rather than the expensive ones fitted to some other hybrids. They shouldn't be damaged by running low on charge, and should hold a charge for many weeks.

The dealer, or halfords/etc can run the battery through a midtronics battery tester to confirm it's ok.

My own dealer also does it at the service.

I wish there was an option to turn the headlights off instantly you power off the car, but the only option is to have them turn off after you shut the drivers door.

I always manually turn them off before powering off the car if they are on - auto headlights can be a common source of power drains with several manufacturers having issues before.

As I park outside in sub zero temperatures, I want maximum battery charge for the pre-dawn cold start.

[Kremmen]

Keep an eye on it as a 'fully' discharged battery can often refuse to hold a charge, even after a full charge.

If it's flat after an overnight stand then it needs a new battery. And a Honda diagnostic.

[5thcivic]

Any issues with trickle charging with Jazz battery in situ?

Honda always recommend disconnecting the battery for charging but I have never found this necessary on either four Civics or the E, having made SAE leads permanently connected to the batteries for ease of charging.

I do not do many miles so cars can sit for a week or two in the garage just draining security. As long as you have fully intelligent chargers of 4 or 5 amp I've never had a problem and top up both overnight every weekend most of the time.

Naturally the Jazz charges the 12V while the engine is working, I wonder if the Lion charges with the engine off?

[Kremmen]

I do very few miles (1,800 since Sep) and I use a CTEK every 2 weeks if I haven't used the car, and not going to in the next few days.

I now have my CTEK hardwire rings attached to battery pos and neg direct and it works fine.

After 2 weeks it can take 6 to 8 hours to go 'green' so it does lose charge.

What I find odd is that it gets to 80% charge quite quick and the 80% to 100%, light trickle, takes the time. That 80% to 100% in my Civic was half the time.

[sportse]

Naturally the Jazz charges the 12V while the engine is working, I wonder if the Lion charges with the engine off?

It's what I did in my Auris during lockdown - just power the car up and read the paper for an hour.

The lion will charge the 12V and the petrol engine will charge the lion as necessary.

Usually charging it up a few bars, then switching off until it runs down and repeating. All the time the 12V is being charged.

It doesn't use much fuel - I've run the Jazz stationary for over an hour twice this week with the air con blowing and then completed a 12 mile urban/40/50mph trip afterwards without powering off. Total mpg for the whole trip and 90 minutes being switched on was 44-47.

[guest9814]

DC-DC charges 12v battery when car in ready mode,but not all time the car in ready mode, there current sensor next to negative battery teminal, when battery charged the current drawn by battery drops and DC-DC stopping chagring it, often during 30 minutes drive i can see that after 10-15 minutes if no head lights or full speed blasting fan run, the battery voltage drops to 13-12.7v (this measured with cigaret lighter socket mounted voltmeter so voltage may be not correctly measured - using only as indication that battery getting charge)
If there an issue with drained 12v battery, Honda diagnostic can see in logs what`s exactly caused this.
There log has notes wat`s exactly drawn current after car locked, how many time and what`s current drawn.

[Bristol_Crosstar]

3 days ago I put my 2020 Jazz SR away in my garage and switched off. As far as I could tell all was as usual, the headlights were on (the light switch default switch position is auto); I think they went off after I switched the engine off and got out of the car - always have before.
Next day the battery was completely dead. All the doors (including the hatch) were closed; nothing inside the car taking power & cabin lights off.
I have a jump start battery; when I started the car all the warning lights came on and stayed on. The manual suggested driving a short distance at above 20mph, but this had no effect. I then connected a battery charger for about 5 hours, then tried again. Still all the warning lights, and another short drive didn't help.
Left the car in the drive (charger not connected) and searched through this website for answers (my local Honda dealership has changed to Kia and weren't helpful) but found nothing relevant. After maybe an hour I went out to the car and found it was back to normal with no warning lights.
I assume the system detected a slightly higher battery voltage than normal immediately after charging, and after a while the voltage reduced to normal limits, but can anyone suggest why the battery died? I am now taking care to manually switch headlights off before stopping the car.

If you haven't already I would measure the voltage in the battery using some type of voltmeter/tester (I got a cheap one from Amazon specifically for 12V car batteries) just to confirm that is the problem, it could also be various other issues in what is quite a complex system.

[John Ratsey]

After 2 weeks it can take 6 to 8 hours to go 'green' so it does lose charge.

I'm surprised it takes that long. I put my battery on charge after several weeks of idleness and the voltage is down to 11.8V (the voltmeter agrees with voltage reported by an OBDII reader when I compared the two some years ago) and my intelligent charger switches from red to green in a few minutes. Nonetheless, I leeave it trickle charging for a few hours.

[5thcivic]

It depends on the charger, intelligent ones have diagnostic routines designed to recognise a plate deterioration etc. I have a Maypole (cheaper than the best Ctek) and a Lidl one (a real bargain). Both take different times due to different built in routines and max charge rates, first a diagnosis test, then a soft start, then constant current, then constant voltage and stop, then pulse charging for trickle maintenance.

[guest9814]

After 2 weeks it can take 6 to 8 hours to go 'green' so it does lose charge.

I'm surprised it takes that long. I put my battery on charge after several weeks of idleness and the voltage is down to 11.8V (the voltmeter agrees with voltage reported by an OBDII reader when I compared the two some years ago) and my intelligent charger switches from red to green in a few minutes. Nonetheless, I leeave it trickle charging for a few hours.

That depends on how charger works, some chargers giving green light not when battery charged completely but when battery reaches programmed in charger voltage, and when we checking voltage after 2 clicks of power button without pressing braking pedal, voltage read by cigarette lighter voltmeter (if that used for that check) is not true because car already consuming at that time from 12v battery 8A
But if charger reaches full charge faster then before , there maybe higher internal resistance in battery !!!

[ADCO]

Hope it's OK to revive this thread. I see that several members have issues with the 12v. battery discharging. My Jazz SR was left outside last night and this morning was covered in heavy frost except for a spot above the camera. I wonder what the standby power consumption of the camera may be?. I recently had the camera recall done and had not noticed this before.

[Saycol]

Hope it's OK to revive this thread. I see that several members have issues with the 12v. battery discharging. My Jazz SR was left outside last night and this morning was covered in heavy frost except for a spot above the camera. I wonder what the standby power consumption of the camera may be?. I recently had the camera recall done and had not noticed this before.

Unable to answer your question, but unfortunately add a “concern” to the camera operation.
In the cold weather yesterday, I left the car in a station car park for 6 hours. On return, no condensation or frost on the exterior, but every interior surface covered with condensation. Took a long while to clear it and an amber warning sign came up about camera failure so presumably condensation had got inside that as well. Once the windows were clear I was able to drive the car and after 3 miles the camera system reverted to normal green.
Reading more posts about 12 volt battery concerns plus the well documented on other threads internal condensation issues I am beginning to wonder if the Jazz is at its best in cold weather.

[Pine]

Many of the niggles referred to on this forum seem to be common to hybrids of all makes, flat 12v batteries, more than normal internal condensation on cold mornings and worse than expected winter fuel consumption.
Then there is the so called (irritating) safety features that you can't turn off and the lights you haven't got full control of.  That's progress for you!

[Jazzik]

Many of the niggles referred to on this forum seem to be common to hybrids of all makes, flat 12v batteries

Maybe it's a good idea to do a poll on this forum to find out how many Jazz users actually (and how often) have been confronted with this flat 12v battery problem. And then not through your own fault (interior or boot light, radio on when washing etc.).
Our Jazz has never been near a battery charger and starts without any problem for 17 months now, even after a longer standstill.

...more than normal internal condensation on cold mornings...

There are several dozen cars in our parking lot, the vast majority non-hybrids and: a cold morning and all with fogged windows...

...worse than expected winter fuel consumption.

What is the consumption you expected in winter? If we drive (very) short distances, it is indeed quite high, compared to the average annual consumption. Yesterday a 13 mile drive, half an hour stop and 13 miles back, temperature around freezing point, on the way home just under. Consumption according to BC: 70.6 mpg. Must have been about 68 in reality. Once warm, it remains economical enough, at least for me.

Then there is the so called (irritating) safety features that you can't turn off and the lights you haven't got full control of.

What is that "so-called" (irritating) safety features that you can't turn off?
And your lights are not mandatory on "Auto", are they?

That's progress for you!

Obviously not for everyone...