Sides of front seats splitting

[RuthieB]

Lord V, thank you for your excellent input on this.
Yes, there is a balance to be struck regarding fair and just dealings with Honda and its dealers in this situation versus the stress and effort processing this claim through the County Court.

Don’t get me wrong but we love this car apart from this issue but Honda’s attitude and Customer Care Service has taken a big nose dive in recent years and it is quite frankly appalling. We only have to look back at how hard we had to push for the Brake Modules to be replaced on affected vehicles ( of which ours was a Jazz and a 20 plate CRV)

It’s the blatant and arrogant dismissive attitude that’s abhorrent and it’s doing nothing to improve customer loyalty and satisfaction.

I am now constantly on the lookout for a future replacement vehicle that can match or beat the Jazz (a tall order I know!) with a supportive dealer network and the provision of an extensive warranty package….5,7 or 10 years. Honda offers neither particularly with fewer dealers around.

My wife and I have been Honda owners since the 1990s and had a Civic, 4 Jazzes, Jazz iMA, Civic tourer and 2  Mk 5 CRVs with no trouble and great ownership experiences. This latest episode has ruined all that loyalty and it’s becoming increasingly apparent that Honda is putting profit maintenance above customer satisfaction.

It clearly no longer attaches any value or importance to its reputation.

[RuthieB]

I'm quite sure my 2013 Civic EX was proper leather seats

All over, not part fabric

Thanks Kremmen,

I have had a Civic Tourer EX, a CRV SR and EX which all have Full Leather seats.
My current CRV EX (which I intend keeping) is full Ivory leather and I don’t have any issues with the trim failing like it does on these early Jazzes.

I bet you are glad that you got rid of your Jazz before the seats possibly may have started to fail!

[Kremmen]

I would have had no issue with pretend leather if it held up, fit for purpose, but it isn't on earlier MK4 given the post here that the latest covers have a different part number

It's causing a fair number of owners here grief so who knows how many more have deteriorating seats with dealers just saying 'tough, pay for replacement'

[RuthieB]

I've checked the Honda.co.uk online configurator and it's showing "Half/Leather Black" as previously reported by Tombola: -

"Honda UK Jazz configurator states interior trim "Half Leather Black" but the specification section states "Soft pad Leather" (Synthetic) for Advance and Sport models."

I'm writing further to honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com to ask for the reasoning of still presenting misleading material descriptions to its customers, before I duly  submit a report to the Advertising Standards Agency (ASA) via their online submission form.
This continued  practice amounts to blatantly misleading folks into believing that they are purchasing something that is not actually being supplied.

[JB]

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/225732/what-can-i-do-about-worn-leather-seats-in-my-three-year-old-mercedes-

[aphybrid]

My previous Crosstar had different fabric seats from those that apparently have the problem.

My new Crosstar has another style of seat trim which has leather effect on top edges but a fabric side, so hopefully no splitting.


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[NoelM]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1C2ZB2fjs3/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[Jazztones]

I am in the same situation having had my request for a repair or goodwill gesture for the seat splitting refused by Honda escalations on the basis it is out of warranty. They have pointed me at the Motor Ombudsman.

Has anyone tested this route?

I am thinking next step is to go back to the dealer we bought the car from, with a claim under the Consumer Rights Act as this part of the upholstery is clearly not fit for purpose.

Plus the brochure specifies leather and it's not.

It's unfortunate it has to be the dealer as they have in every other respect so far been very helpful.

It's been nearly 5 years since purchase now. We noticed the splitting at around 47000 miles just after its five year service last summer (it was a demonstrator during lockdown for 10 months before we bought it).

What I can't easily find is next steps if the dealer refuses to repair. Can there be a Small Claims Court action if we haven't incurred the expense of repairing it ourselves yet?

I've been in contact with honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com and, so far, had two refusals to accept responsibility for the sub-standard 'material' used in side panels - when compared with earlier Jazz models and 'Crosstar' models.  This was after my application for it to be repaired on (extended) warranty was refused via the dealer and a second attempt instigated by the Group Operations Director of my dealer was also rejected by Honda.
I would be very pleased, dfconnolly, if you pursued Honda by the same or any alternative route you have available!
In my claim I quoted extracts from about 15 individuals who have reported these issues on Club Jazz forum over the past 2 or 3 years (including one or two who have claimed successfully - in Italy, Japan and Boston) and the response was (paraphrased) 'whilst we acknowledge the evidence you have provided and claim of substandard materials, we are going to do nothing'.
honda.uk.escalations@honda-eu.com  suggest the next step is the motor ombudsman, but I'm thinking, that before the ombudsman the 'Consumer Rights Act 2015' might be useful.  It seems (I'll do more research) that for 6 years after purchase you can claim that the seller - i.e the dealer (not manufacturer - which seem unfair!) sold goods which were not of merchantable quality or durability.  Durability seems the key thing here - you surely shouldn't expect car seats which have been used, in my case 45,000 miles, to fall apart - and with the same 'pattern' of falling apart as illustrated by other contributors.

[Kremmen]

IMO this is disgusting behaviour from Honda

They have clearly produced a side seat cover that is unfit for purpose after such a short period of time by just the number of owners affected here

In time they must all surely fail

To only guarantee the seat cover from a defect after just 3 years is beyond belief

Rant over

[nr16apple]

To only guarantee the seat cover from a defect after just 3 years is beyond belief

Thank you Kremmen.  My Jazz is 2021, 46000 miles with 3 year extended Honda warranty (to April 2027).  But Honda say their warranty does not cover upholstery.  This is the reply I received from Honda UK Escalations in mid-December:  'We can confirm that a warranty claim was submitted for this issue and has been reviewed by our warranty department. However, the claim has been rejected and we regret to inform you that we cannot overturn warranty department decisions, as these decisions are made based on our established warranty terms and the specific circumstances of each claim.'
That was after I presented Honda UK with a list (from 'ClubJazz' forum) of no less than 15 names reporting the 'splitting' issue along with several photos showing the repeated pattern of the damage. Some of these (mostly abroad but one in Boston) had their seats repaired / replaced by Honda.
A further communication has also rejected any 'goodwill' gesture.
Following the post by Jazztones (23rd January) I now know of at least three owners currently in communication with various agents at Honda Customer Services.  I am personally awaiting a response to my 'Consumer Rights Act' claim against my dealer alleging that the seat cover is not of adequate durability - a key feature of  'fit for purpose'. It's 10 days since I sent my claim - if I'm optimistic, I'm thinking the dealer might be in communication with Honda UK trying to get sense out of them and persuade them to rectify what is obviously a manufacturing fault. When compared with previous Jazz models, current Crosstar models and even the woven fabric covering on the 'inside' (centre console facing) panels on my own vehicle,   there is no doubt: the wrong material was used - and the brochure description implies it is leather - which it is not.
All who have approached Honda UK have been directed to The Motor Ombudsman, but online research (thank you DFConnolly) suggests that is a very long, difficult and often un-rewarding process.

[nr16apple]

I am in the same situation having had my request for a repair or goodwill gesture for the seat splitting refused by Honda escalations on the basis it is out of warranty. They have pointed me at the Motor Ombudsman.

Has anyone tested this route?

I am thinking next step is to go back to the dealer we bought the car from, with a claim under the Consumer Rights Act as this part of the upholstery is clearly not fit for purpose.

Thanks, Jazztones.
As reported in another response, I'm waiting for a message form my dealer regarding claim against them as the 'seller', having been repeatedly pushed back by Honda UK Customer Services / Escalations (despite having a 3 year extended Honda UK warranty (to April 2027).
Personally I don't fancy spending an estimated £1500 or more getting things sorted and then risking a claim in the Small Claims Court!

[Kremmen]

From the Honda responses here, someone needs to go legal and get guidance and a ruling from an independent source

Staying within the Honda umbrella seems pointless

Fortunately mine were still OK when I sold it, probably because it was only on 5k miles so not sat in a lot, but being a member of Which? Legal that would have been my route

[RuthieB]

REPLACEMENTS - are there any folks out there who can report back on the installation of replacement covers (under warranty probably).

Particularly interested in if the replacements fitted well and have held up OK with no recurrent fabric splitting??

Thanks in advance for any feedback or comments

[Lord Voltermore]

It would be interesting to know if  'leather' is described differently, and maybe more accurately, in different European countries on their local Honda websites, brochures and dealership paperwork etc . Knowledge of Honda using a more  accurate and honourable description in other countries may help with a UK dispute .

I noticed that  Honda (Honda Europe?) typically use the same website  format template , photographs etc for multiple  countries, translated into the local language and contact details,local sales promotions etc. .  I assume the translation  is overseen by native speakers in that country, perhaps by Honda UK, Honda France etc ,

Is it possible that certain languages  have a more appropriate and accurate word in common usage to describe imitation 'leather'.  ?  Or maybe local translators  were less comfortable  with an inaccurate description, or Honda knew it would contravene  stricter local consumer laws.     

[coldstart]

It would be interesting to know if  'leather' is described differently, and maybe more accurately, in different European countries on their local Honda websites, brochures and dealership paperwork etc . Knowledge of Honda using a more  accurate and honourable description in other countries may help with a UK dispute .

I've retained the July 2023 price list from Honda Switzerland (the one in effect when I made the contract to buy my Jazz Advance).

It states for the Jazz Advance's interiour:
- Stoff/Leder*-Ausstattung      (fabric/leather*-trim)

with the footnote:
*Synthetisches Leder      (synthetic leather)

I have several more recent price lists on file as well which all have the same wording and footnote.
Hope this helps!