Author Topic: New South African variant.  (Read 51260 times)

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #240 on: December 15, 2021, 06:59:32 PM »
Reading all the above posts it's fairly clear who supports Tory and who supports Labour, or another party.

Just to be clear, I do not support any political party, happy to be critical of any politician if they deserve criticism.

Me neither but I must admit to having a chuckle at this.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/desmond-swayne-vaccine-passports-omicron-b1976083.html
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 07:01:17 PM by JimSh »

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #241 on: December 15, 2021, 09:02:00 PM »
On the other hand

Good advice from this bloke.

https://www.channel4.com/news/government-should-ask-public-to-limit-contact-now-behavioural-scientist-says

Polite criticism of government's mixed messaging but get vaccinated and avoid unnecessary contact.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 08:54:37 AM by JimSh »

embee

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #242 on: December 15, 2021, 09:41:16 PM »
It was interesting to watch the presentation today. Witty basically said everything he could see coming was bad. Johnson said isn't the vaccination programme going well. Slightly different emphasis, probably both more or less right.

JimSh

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JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #244 on: December 16, 2021, 09:12:27 AM »
It was interesting to watch the presentation today. Witty basically said everything he could see coming was bad. Johnson said isn't the vaccination programme going well. Slightly different emphasis, probably both more or less right.
Johnson says "get jabbed"
Whitty says " avoid unnecessary social contact as well"
 "Reduce socialising to save Christmas, Whitty says as omicron fears hit hospitality sector"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/covid-omicron-symptoms-vaccines-latest-b1977062.html

I saw one of the covid experts giving a Q& A with Lynda Bauld on breakfast tv yesterday
His analogy was not the usual " race with the virus" one but a see-saw with the virus on one end.
Vaccination was the biggest thing we could counterbalance it with but anything else --Face masks, avoiding crowds, social distancing, ventilation, good hygiene, testing and isolating would help to tip the balance.

BBC Update
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59676569
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 09:44:45 AM by JimSh »

madasafish

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #245 on: December 16, 2021, 10:31:04 AM »
Here is a more optimistic analysis than most.

https://justgivemepositivenews.com/home/fts-data-specialist-john-burn-murdoch-analyses-the-data-on-what-we-can-expect-with-omicron/

Yes BUT:
He does not mention:
1. Average population  age in SA at 26years is much lower than UK 41years. So less severe cases with complications.
2. UK winter weather. SA has coldish winters but drier.
3. There are 5 million UK un-vaccinated - a LOT in London .

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #246 on: December 16, 2021, 11:36:06 AM »
Here is a more optimistic analysis than most.

https://justgivemepositivenews.com/home/fts-data-specialist-john-burn-murdoch-analyses-the-data-on-what-we-can-expect-with-omicron/

Yes BUT:
He does not mention:
1. Average population  age in SA at 26years is much lower than UK 41years. So less severe cases with complications.
2. UK winter weather. SA has coldish winters but drier.
3. There are 5 million UK un-vaccinated - a LOT in London .
Thanks for reading.
Maybe that's why he is more optimistic.
Whitty is on TV just now answering questions from MPs.
Scary thing is that a lot of the questions are incredibly naive.

Kremmen

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #247 on: December 16, 2021, 12:23:14 PM »
I do get the impression nobody really knows yet so a lot is guesswork.

Let's be careful out there !

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #248 on: December 16, 2021, 12:32:14 PM »
I do get the impression nobody really knows yet so a lot is guesswork.
Nobody really knows yet but what the scientists are doing is not guesswork. 
They need time to gain data to refine their estimates ---- hence the need for caution.

This sort of sh1t headline  in the Evening Standard doesn't help.
Tory MPs: Whitty running the show and creating ‘public health socialist state

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/tory-mps-whitty-running-the-show-and-creating-e2-80-98public-health-socialist-state-e2-80-99/ar-AARS6dj?ocid=uxbndlbing

« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 03:54:19 PM by JimSh »

madasafish

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #249 on: December 16, 2021, 12:51:59 PM »
I do get the impression nobody really knows yet so a lot is guesswork.
Nobody really knows yet but what the scientists are doing is not guesswork. 
They need time to gain data to refine their estimates ---- hence the need for caution.

I did dome sums and tried to calculate the likely deaths based on deaths being 10 -30% of the Delta levels. My sums suggested infections would be 250k a day by Christmas: based on current levels I was being far too cautious.. Such high levels are unsustainable: the virus will run out of people to infect.

Kremmen

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #250 on: December 16, 2021, 12:59:38 PM »
Today's dashboard will be interesting.

Will it be significantly above yesterday's 80k (or 800k as Boris announced it)
Let's be careful out there !

madasafish

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #251 on: December 16, 2021, 01:06:28 PM »
Today's dashboard will be interesting.

Will it be significantly above yesterday's 80k (or 800k as Boris announced it)

Mu guess? 100 - 110k.

But they will soon be running out of test kits.

culzean

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #252 on: December 16, 2021, 02:29:25 PM »
Well almost 2 years after a fair few 'lay' members of public thought this, the 'experts' are now coming round to the idea... An engineered virus, with funds from USA and Fauci, which leaked from Wuhan lab due to pathetic bio-security.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1536643/wuhan-lab-leak-origin-theory-mps-china-who-covid-coronavirus-bat
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #253 on: December 16, 2021, 02:33:56 PM »
Seems the tame experts are still guessing, otherwise we have to draw the conclusion that they are deliberately  misleading the public ( telling porkies ).  We are in danger of 'protecting Delta' if we fail to let Omicron become dominant and displace it... and Delta is the bad guy.. Government policies should not interfere with the natural evolution of a virus,  which is to become more infectious but less virulent.  When a lot less people get sick with Omicron I bet Pfizer will claim the credit, even though they are selling gullible politicians a vaccine for a virus strain that does not need one, and looking forward to doing the same well into next year.

'Whitty, however, implanted a new idea in our heads: that Omicron is running almost as a parallel epidemic – that Delta is not going away, that Omicron is ‘building on’ it. But this is not what appears to have happened in South Africa, where the data presented by Discovery Heath and the South African Medical Research Council on Tuesday clearly shows Omicron displacing Delta in that country – to the point that Delta is now an endangered species. There is no parallel epidemic going on there.'
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 02:54:37 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #254 on: December 16, 2021, 03:03:19 PM »
Seems the tame experts are still guessing, otherwise we have to draw the conclusion that they are deliberately  misleading the public ( telling porkies ).  We are in danger of 'protecting Delta' if we fail to let Omicron become dominant and displace it... and Delta is the bad guy.. Government policies should not interfere with the natural evolution of a virus,  which is to become more infectious but less virulent.  When a lot less people get sick with Omicron I bet Pfizer will claim the credit, even though they are selling gullible politicians a vaccine for a virus strain that does not need one, and looking forward to doing the same well into next year.


Good job  neither you nor  the source of your article is the Chief Medical Officer.

'Whitty, however, implanted a new idea in our heads: that Omicron is running almost as a parallel epidemic – that Delta is not going away, that Omicron is ‘building on’ it. But this is not what appears to have happened in South Africa, where the data presented by Discovery Heath and the South African Medical Research Council on Tuesday clearly shows Omicron displacing Delta in that country – to the point that Delta is now an endangered species. There is no parallel epidemic going on there.'
What is your source here? The idea is unfounded and just presented to cause confusion.
The best estimates initially were based on the South African experience .
That was all they could base it on but as Maaf pointed out there is difference in age of population, percentage of vaccinated population, percentage of previously infected population  summer vs winter.
Whitty is right in saying that there are at present two epidemics going on here.
As your article points out omicron will displace delta as the dominant variant but this will not affect the increase in the overall number of cases because those suscptible to the delta variant will also be susceptible to omicron as well as the people previously immune to dellta but susceptible to omicron.
The South African outbreak of omicron is several weeks ahead of ours so already omicron has effectively displaced delta completely.

I did dome sums and tried to calculate the likely deaths based on deaths being 10 -30% of the Delta levels. My sums suggested infections would be 250k a day by Christmas: based on current levels I was being far too cautious.. Such high levels are unsustainable: the virus will run out of people to infect.
Yes the doubling time will  increase (or R decrease) as the number of suscptible people decreases through vaccination, infection, or death but it is as yet unknown when this will become significant.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 04:58:35 PM by JimSh »

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