Semi-conductor shortage

[culzean]

Never indicate unless another driver can be either helped or warned by my indicator.....  I never trust an indicator when I did not see it start flashing,  and even then take more notice of what the vehicle is doing than what its indicator says....  Call me an indicator sceptic, but then I ride motorbikes and have learned the hard way....

Let me guess...   Your car is a BMW or an Audi?

Why would I be on a Honda Jazz forum ?

I am aware who is around me and where they are.... I don't just indicate so that I can say in court 'well I indicated, I always do'.....

[Jazzik]

I am aware who is around me and where they are.... I don't just indicate so that I can say in court 'well I indicated, I always do'.....

Of course... the rules are for the idi#ts... And you also save your battery and bulbs, right? 

[Lord Voltermore]

Plus, for me, its insistence that I indicate every manoeuvre even when I'm the only car on the road.

That's how I was taught to drive.

Never indicate unless another driver can be either helped or warned by my indicator.....  I never trust an indicator when I did not see it start flashing,  and even then take more notice of what the vehicle is doing than what its indicator says....  Call me an indicator sceptic, but then I ride motorbikes and have learned the hard way....

Me too..  The rote taught to learners,  Mirror-signal-manoeuvre,  is dumbed down..Bikers especially know how often it leads to the bad habit of  drivers  'looking' in the mirror  but not actually  seeing ,indicating as they do so out of habit  and manoeuvring because they have indicated. Not because its safe.

Advanced driving manuals (such as roadcraft, the official police advanced driving manual thats  available to the public)  advocates making a conscious decision  when and whether  to indicate, every time.  (or it did when I last read it)   A decision to deliberately not indicate on this occasion  requires  enhanced hazard  perception taking into account  more than just your  mirrors, such as oncoming vehicle, pedestrians waiting to cross  ,how they are perceived by other drivers, what might develop in the next few seconds etc.     It enhances the ability to plan ahead , look round properly  and with time to think. 

Audible warning only when indicating on blindspot monitoring is a factor though.    Its more likely to be needed by those who indicate without looking properly .  Those who look more thoroughly are aided by the lights,  but if they still get it wrong and change lane without indicating  they may miss out on a final warning.
It seem you now need to include the car in the 'need to know' decision when changing lanes.

My driving instructor was a stereotypical 'ww2 fighter pilot' type  character, with handlebar moustache .  He taught me the Douglas Bader  school of thought that "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools."  Including parts of the highway code.    He was eccentric in other ways.  He once grabbed the steering wheel and swerved the car to try and kill a rat.   Maybe thats why RDMS doesnt worry me.   But he was right.  He inspired me to study more advanced driving techniques which often deviate significantly from the simplified highway code guidance.   

Of course the rules may differ in other countries.  But if you look properly you would spot the police.

[Kremmen]

Advanced driving manuals (such as roadcraft, the official police advanced driving manual thats  available to the public)  advocates making a conscious decision  when and whether  to indicate, every time.  (or it did when I last read it)   A decision to deliberately not indicate on this occasion  requires  enhanced hazard  perception taking into account  more than just your  mirrors, such as oncoming vehicle, pedestrians waiting to cross  ,how they are perceived by other drivers, what might develop in the next few seconds etc.     It enhances the ability to plan ahead , look round properly  and with time to think. 

I've posted similar a few times and often been criticised for not indicating, even when I know I'm the only vehicle, pedestrian, etc on the road.

I've passed 4 driving tests in my time and the IAM also follow the RoadCraft guidelines regarding pointless indicating when you know through observation it's not necessary.

However, I will not criticise anyone who decides to indicate for every manoeuvre, it doesn't hurt.

[Bazzzer]

Let me guess...   Your car is a BMW or an Audi?

You are stereotyping in the same way that I view people who wear hats in a closed car.

[culzean]

Let me guess...   Your car is a BMW or an Audi?

They cannot fit lane keeping devices to German cars, there is no indicator activated input to mute the system, only thing that will be available to mute the system will be the sound of another vehicles horn,  and by then it is too late, the manouvre is already underway.... or the accident already happened.

[Lord Voltermore]

I've posted similar a few times and often been criticised for not indicating, even when I know I'm the only vehicle, pedestrian, etc on the road.

I've passed 4 driving tests in my time and the IAM also follow the RoadCraft guidelines regarding pointless indicating when you know through observation it's not necessary.

However, I will not criticise anyone who decides to indicate for every manoeuvre, it doesn't hurt.

I too have been criticised for where I sometimes  deviate from the highway code.
  They are right in one respect. The highway code is divided in to things you MUST  and Must not do , and those you SHOULD  and should not do. Shoulds are not in them self legally binding, but can be used as supporting evidence in court of what you should have done.   So you do need some experience and be sure of yourself to deviate from the HWC.

One  area where I often deviate is  rule 160 ." You should keep to the left unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise."
       I position myself in the safest place for the circumstances. Where I can see best and be seen best. Especially on a  motorbike.   I may not be here now if I had slavishly followed rule 160.

 For instance.  If there is no traffic for miles and there are  hedges ,farm entrances ,buildings etc  on my left that could hide hazards , but clear open fields on my right  i will drive  well  into the centre of the road, or even on the wrong side of the road.  Until something comes.
 Rule 160 mentions the benefits of being well to the left on a right hand bend, but omits to mention that the opposite is also true. Because inexperienced drivers might get it horribly wrong.  Happy to admit if I get it wrong. But prepared to justify my positioning if necessary.
 

[Kremmen]

Fully agree. Read the road and be aware of your surroundings.

[culzean]

Whenever you start to do things automatically from habit it is a bad thing, it means you are not concentrating.  I read an article years ago ( and others since ) that said most accidents happen on roads that are local to the vehicle owner ( something like 70% within 10 miles of drivers home),  they get complacent and concentration wanders whereas in a strange area they concentrate more.  Now you may say that because the driver uses those roads a lot more frequently it is more likely that an accident will happen, but I believe the conclusion was that people were not concentrating as much.

[Neil Ives]

It is wrong to assume that signalling must indicate lazy unobservant driving. I signal to let anyone who may need to know, what I'm about to do, but I'm still scanning my surroundings looking for hazards.  As I've already said, a driver CANNOT be absolutely sure that it is safe to manoeuvre without giving warning first. Also, do many drivers give a thought to prioritising the needs of pedestrians and cyclists;  they are the top priority for road users? I understand that the new Highway Code is going to strengthen that message.

I'm sorry, but not signalling is lazyiness

[Jazzik]

I'm sorry, but not signalling is lazyiness

Or a "I don't give a damn" mentality.

Signaling really doesn't mean I'm driving not concentrated or do things automatically from habit. It doesn't even mean that I don't read the road and/or am not aware of my surroundings!

By the way... what has indicating or not indicating to do with semi-conductor shortage...?

[Kremmen]

I'm sorry, but not signalling is lazyiness

I'm sorry but I disagree. As does the advanced driver schemes.

There are many scenarios where observation takes priority and if there is no one around then who are you indicating to ?

This is a regular topic of discussion with many PDIs that are working towards their Part 2, and I also often come across it when assessing ADIs in preparation for their Check Test.  In a nutshell, many PDIs and ADIs are guilty of trying to create a ‘one rule fits all’ approach.  In the modern world, this just isn’t workable – there are far too many factors to take into account, and besides, a good driver should be able to decide if and when a signal is appropriate, or when one could lead to confusion or even danger.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[ColinB]

I'm sorry, but not signalling is lazyiness

I'm sorry but I disagree. As does the advanced driver schemes.

There are many scenarios where observation takes priority and if there is no one around then who are you indicating to ?

This is a regular topic of discussion with many PDIs that are working towards their Part 2, and I also often come across it when assessing ADIs in preparation for their Check Test.  In a nutshell, many PDIs and ADIs are guilty of trying to create a ‘one rule fits all’ approach.  In the modern world, this just isn’t workable – there are far too many factors to take into account, and besides, a good driver should be able to decide if and when a signal is appropriate, or when one could lead to confusion or even danger.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Completely agree with that. Personally I would prefer to follow the guidance of the experienced police driver who was my IAM Observer rather than the opinions of someone whose training, experience, and qualifications I know nothing about. No disrespect intended to any who contribute to this forum who have different views, we just have to disagree.

(BTW, the quote would carry more weight if the source was given ... is that from Roadcraft or something else?)

[Neil Ives]

Sorry to continue off topic.
You just need to observe traffic to see that a large proportion of drivers are not signalling ever! This is not because they are skilled observant drivers; it's because they have been led to believe that it no longer matters and they are too lazy to think about it.
A pedestrian trying to cross a road near the exit of a roundabout has to play Russian Roulette.

Yesterday evening, I had pulled off a road in town to let my wife drop something off. It was dark. The road behind me curved away to my left, (nearside) so I had no view of traffic coming around the bend behind me. When it was time to go, despite there being no other traffic visible, I put my right indicator on so that anyone coming around that bend could see early that my dark coloured car was moving into the road. No traffic visible but a signal was definitely needed.

Do I come across as someone who drives on autopilot slavishly signalling because I'm unaware of my surroundings?

I do not see the harm in letting the whole world know what I'm intending to do next.

I may not yet be able see that car that's about to poke it's nose out from someone's drive but the driver can see me and he needs to know if I'm going to exit the roundabout. What about the pedestrian dressed in dark clothing at night?

I'm 71, I wear glasses for driving. It's night time, maybe it's raining, headlamps are dazzling me;  my eyes may not see that lad dressed in dark clothing who is about to zip across the road on his scooter at the same time that I turn in to it.

I passed my driving test in 1967. I've had no serious accidents and no speeding tickets. I drive on average 10k miles a year and make fast progress, (when appropriate) . I'm sure I could do the Advanced Drivers Test but I may have to keep quiet about my views on indicating. 

[Jazzik]

...and besides, a good driver should be able to decide if and when a signal is appropriate, or when one could lead to confusion or even danger.

Just a quote from an (anonymous, so questionable) quote.
And just one question: what is the percentage of these on the road? (only include the others in the calculation, not yourself of course  ).