Author Topic: Drum break conversion  (Read 328 times)

billyausten

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Drum break conversion
« on: April 07, 2021, 08:00:58 PM »
Hi all,
Just testing the water with this idea. The rear axle on my '08 Sport has a lot of surface rust. Its not structural, but jolly unsightly, and my friendly mot man said it it probably the only thing that will start to cause issues in the next few years. I'm thinking of getting a decent spare entire axle from a breaker therefore, tarting it up,  and swapping the whole thing over. Given how many of these are being broken up it shouldn't be hard to find a decent axle.

It got me thinking though. Even a sport model is never going to be a sports car, and I've no intention of doing anything radical to improve its performance, so I don't actually need to stick with rear discs. I have a new set of brake calipers already however even with these the handbrake is poor at best. I was thinking of getting a drum brake axle therefore. This should improve the hand brake, and I doubt I'd miss any rolling brake performance. It wouldn't look as nice, but as long as it was an ABS model still I could live with it.

Am I mad?

The only questions I have are to do with the brakes:
 Would the brake bias be the same? Ie whether there is any change in f/r brake proportion between a disc and a drum setup?
Secondly would a drum ABS sensor fit a disc brake loom?
The spring and shock mounts look identical, as do the main mounting point.

Rear brake calipers are always the Achilles heel in any honda as they always seize. Drums neatly side step this with apparently little other compromise.

Any thoughts or advice welcome.
Current: '08 GE3 Sport, '97 CE1 Aerodeck 2.2iES
Previous Hondas: CA5 CC1 EE8 EE9 CC9 CH1 ED7 ZE1 CN1 CE1. - Non Honda: E-RNN14 GTiR E-BNR32 GTR

Jocko

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2021, 08:19:43 PM »
You say it is a GD3. Does it have a 1.5 engine?

sparky Paul

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2021, 12:26:19 AM »
As Jocko says, GD3 should be a 1.5 litre L15A vtec engine.

The old drum brake axle looks like a straight swap physically, but there's plenty of scope for problems in other areas. The part numbers for the drum and disc brake ABS modulators are different, which may well relate to front/rear bias. There have also been several suspension revisions since the early cars.

Bear in mind that the drum brake axle was only fitted on pre-04 cars, and S models were non-ABS, so finding a suitable axle might not be that easy.

Jocko

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2021, 07:25:16 AM »
I would also suggest it challenging to get a 03 back axle that was not as rusty as your 08 axle. Unless a car has been garaged over winter, they still get the sand and salt. And low miles doesn't equate to low rust.

UKjim

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2021, 10:06:37 AM »
Have you considered spraying the axle and suspension parts with ACF-50 or Lanoguard (https://www.lanoguard.co.uk). Will stop the rust getting worse and look a whole lot better.


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E27006

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2021, 05:00:15 PM »
Stick with the disc brakes,  Honda Jazz reviews were critical of the  stopping distance of the drum-braked rear axle Jazz, it was behind the competition and not good enough. Honda quickly  switched to a 4-wheel disc break specification

culzean

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2021, 05:53:50 PM »
Stick with the disc brakes,  Honda Jazz reviews were critical of the  stopping distance of the drum-braked rear axle Jazz, it was behind the competition and not good enough. Honda quickly  switched to a 4-wheel disc break specification

Rear brakes only add about 15% to total braking effort -  weight of a vehicle moves forward very fast under heavy braking,  giving front tyres a lot more grip than rears.  Drum brakes are still fitted to rear of many smaller vehicles,  while Toyota fits them to big off-roaders like Tacoma in USA.  Drum brake shoes are good for about 120K under normal use,  only shoes need replacing, the drums last for ever.  The rear brakes of vehicles end up being plastered with all the crap the front wheels throw up, which is why rear discs on Jazz are always needing way more maintenance than the fronts, and drums are a much better parking brake than a disc. A drum brake internals are very well protected from water and dirt, disc brakes are open to everything.  On my first Civic I could lock up the rear wheels while still moving with rear drums,  never been able to do that with rear discs. As a drum rotates it has a self-servo action, where it tries to pull the shoe harder into the drum face, that never happens with discs.  On a light family hatch like a Jazz the rear discs are more for styling than engineering.  The only downside of drums on front of vehicles is that they can overheat and fade under prolonged heavy braking,  but being as the rear brakes do hardly anything anyway not warranted on rear for that reason.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 06:25:19 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

billyausten

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2021, 11:32:37 PM »
Thanks for the replies and thoughts all. Culzeans post above very eloquently covers my thought process as to why drums may actually suit the car better. I'm generally a fan of discs all round, but for this car the benefits hardly seem to outweigh the issues they create. I'm undecided whether this is worth my time perusing or not, it probably isn't given the uncertainty over proportioning, ABS compatability etc. I still think I'll look for a spare axle to swap in however as the refurb and swap should be very straight forward.
Current: '08 GE3 Sport, '97 CE1 Aerodeck 2.2iES
Previous Hondas: CA5 CC1 EE8 EE9 CC9 CH1 ED7 ZE1 CN1 CE1. - Non Honda: E-RNN14 GTiR E-BNR32 GTR

E27006

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2021, 05:13:09 PM »
There is an online UK parts listing complete with diagrams and part numbers:

https://www.lingshondaparts.com/cars.html

https://www.lingshondaparts.com/cars.html

You can look up vehicles by registration number ,  you may be able to print out the relevant diagrams and assess which of the parts assemblies are common to drum and diskbraked cars

Jocko

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Re: Drum break conversion
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2021, 07:51:13 PM »

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