Brake disc callipers

[mj1sjc]

Guys, i need some help pls.

On this thread you can see the picture i had put up on the very 1st day abt my rear left brake disk which is a bit rusty.
So, i found a contact to a Honda mechanic through a friend and he said i should change that calliper only.
I'm going to buy this cheapest one on Auto dr for £43 or so and is that the only item I need or do I need any other nuts n bolts as an addition? Also, could you please check the picture kindly and tell me os that the only item when you say a rear left caliper ?

I'm also going to change both rear discs and pads too in the same time. Brake fluid has been changed in last week. Tia!

[UKjim]

Other than 10mm Copper Banjo washers that should be all you will need.


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[mj1sjc]

Can someone please advice me on here kindly..

I had created this thread 2 months ago to check if my brake discs were ok as my rear left disc has a corrosion and the pad doesn't seemed to touch the disc completely.

So, i've shown this to a friend of a friend who worked for honda and he said I need a new calliper on to the left only. I also thought I should change both rear discs and pads too in the same time so he did this all for me this morning.

1- I had a 70 mile journey to home and I felt the brakes were kind of gone so soft, I meant I had to push down more than before since the new rear discs and pads plus rear left Caliper in order to stop the car. Is it normal? The guy did some brake oil bleeding too on the Left calliper. Previously, a little pressure on the brake paddle stops the car most immediately.

2- when I come home after a 70 mile journey  I've realised the Left disc ( also with a new caliper on this side) seems working properly means you can see the shiny surface properly but the Right disc ( caliper did not changed) only has the shiny surface to like one third. Is it normal?

I've rung the guy who did the job and he said I need to do atleast 200 miles to get both sides equally shiny. Tia!

[UKjim]

I'm no expert but new pads definitely need some miles to bed in properly. I'd give it some more miles and see how they feel.

[Jocko]

Front pads bed in fairly quickly, but rear pads can take more miles, particularly if you are not hard on the brakes.

[culzean]

I'm no expert but new pads definitely need some miles to bed in properly. I'd give it some more miles and see how they feel.

If one of our cars has been stood for a while I will apply handbrake lightly while moving for a short time,  this polishes up rear discs pretty quickly, otherwise because of the low brake force on rear brakes they will take a while,  This is also useful for bedding new pads in,  but beware how quickly brakes can heat up and don't apply handbrake for more than a few seconds at a time.  Front pads bed in a lot more quickly than rears when brakes just used normally.

[BrummPopBang]

Can someone please advise me...

When I work on my callipers I operate the hand brake while driving (providing road conditions allow). This engages the ratchet which winds the adjuster to make the shoes a snug fit to the disk and as others have suggested, helps bed in the shoes. But I actuate the hand brake quite hard (at maybe one engagement per second) maybe 10 times with the button held in.

Another way of helping this process is, while parked and the engine running, press quite hard on the brake pedal and actuate the brake lever up and down as above with the button depressed so that the hand brake is pulled up good and taught; again - 10 times or so.

If this doesn't solve spongy brakes, then bleeding could be tried.

I've rebuilt my callipers all round several times and uncovered a number of issues with older callipers. The dust covers are fitted on the inside of the piston bore. This allows water to get between the dust seal and the calliper body; as the body rusts it pushes the seal onto the piston. My rears where very tight and on inspection found some corrosion pitting which I believe contributed to the lowering the braking effectiveness. I replaced seals and pistons after thoroughly cleaning the seal groove in the calliper body. That said, the rears discs are rusting again so it's back to harder braking for a while.

[mj1sjc]

Can I just ask at what speed I should apply the hand break and should I completely stop the car or just slightly slow it down and let go again and repeat?

Also,  should I do this whilst continue to pressing the handbrake button or not? Tia!

Can someone please advise me...

When I work on my callipers I operate the hand brake while driving (providing road conditions allow). This engages the ratchet which winds the adjuster to make the shoes a snug fit to the disk and as others have suggested, helps bed in the shoes. But I actuate the hand brake quite hard (at maybe one engagement per second) maybe 10 times with the button held in.

Another way of helping this process is, while parked and the engine running, press quite hard on the brake pedal and actuate the brake lever up and down as above with the button depressed so that the hand brake is pulled up good and taught; again - 10 times or so.

If this doesn't solve spongy brakes, then bleeding could be tried.

I've rebuilt my callipers all round several times and uncovered a number of issues with older callipers. The dust covers are fitted on the inside of the piston bore. This allows water to get between the dust seal and the calliper body; as the body rusts it pushes the seal onto the piston. My rears where very tight and on inspection found some corrosion pitting which I believe contributed to the lowering the braking effectiveness. I replaced seals and pistons after thoroughly cleaning the seal groove in the calliper body. That said, the rears discs are rusting again so it's back to harder braking for a while.

[BrummPopBang]

Can I just ask at what speed I should apply the hand break ...

Any manoeuvre of this type must be done with safety in mind. I suggest applying the hand brake at no more than 30mph on local roads (not a motorway) and with as few other vehicles around (moving or stationary) as possible. Again this is to reduce risks.

The brakes will only "bed in" if the car is moving, and as you are applying the (rather weak) handbrake, you can apply the throttle to keep the speed at 30mph. But if you are not keen to apply the throttle, then allow the car to slow to say 25mph, release the brake, speed up to 30mph and apply the brake again.

The only reason I suggest holding the handbrake button in is to make it easy to release the brake. There is no great science behind the process, it's more a case of how confident you are at controlling the car safely while using the brakes in this unconventional way.

There are two things going on - 1) bedding in the pads which causes them to wear. This results in greater movement on the hand brake, and 2) Rotation of the automatic hand brake adjuster to reduce the hand brake movement.

There is no doubt that these processes will help the brakes adjust, but the questions are by how much and will the effects be noticeable.

I forget which side wasn't bedding in so well. If it was the side with the old calliper, there could be rust or other debris causing the pads to sit at an angle to the surface of the disc. The calliper slides could be worn or seized. If it is the old calliper side, then all the mating surfaces should be checked for any rust build-up. Any present needs removing, and the slide pins should be refurbished as necessary.

This all comes down to the process of fitting. This is a particular skill. To a large extent it needs teaching. It would take a lifetime to learn without help. So it really depends how experiences both you and your friend are. Working at Honda is not necessarily a qualification as a fitter. Being able to "fix a pile of parts together", likewise is not necessarily that qualification. Fitting is looking, touching, feeling and measuring to see how parts mate and move together; and then making adjustments so that mechanisms "operate properly" - whatever that means for the mechanism. A half-worn disc shows that the something is not square and that can be caused by many things, some of which I have just mentioned.

HTH

[sparky Paul]

When I work on my callipers I operate the hand brake while driving (providing road conditions allow). This engages the ratchet which winds the adjuster to make the shoes a snug fit to the disk

The handbrake adjuster mechanism is advanced by applying and releasing the footbrake, not the handbrake. That's why you must apply the footbrake first several times after refitting the caliper, before applying the handbrake.

Explanation of how these calipers work here

http://www.engineeringinspiration.co.uk/parkingadj.html

[culzean]

When I work on my callipers I operate the hand brake while driving (providing road conditions allow). This engages the ratchet which winds the adjuster to make the shoes a snug fit to the disk

The handbrake adjuster mechanism is advanced by applying and releasing the footbrake not the handbrake. That's why you must apply the footbrake first several times after refitting the caliper, before applying the handbrake.


http://www.engineeringinspiration.co.uk/parkingadj.html

Spot on - same with the ratchet on drum brakes,  that was adjusted by footbrake (advice after fitting new shoes or reassembling the brakes was to slacken off cable and pump the footbrake, you could hear the ratchet clicking as it adjusted ).  Problem with disc brakes is that they are always dragging,  they do not have a spring to retract the shoes like a drum does.   

Interesting thing I saw on a motorbike racing documentary - after a racer has experienced a 'tank slapper' ( violent shaking of the front wheel from side - to -side , although they do have steering dampers fitted to lessen the violence ) they have to squeeze the front brakes a few times to push pistons back out - apparently the forces of the tank slapper can push the pistons back into cylinder, and if you are not aware, then the next time you apply front brake it doesn't work 

[sparky Paul]

I think you edited my quote as well culzean, I never wrote that bit about ratchet clicking! 

[mj1sjc]

I just realised today the hand break has very little or no resistant at all even I pull it up all the way. Ive tested the handbrake car facing downhill with the gear on N.

Do you rekon this should have dealt in the first place when changing the brake discs and pads plus one calliper on the left?

Or, will all this back to normal after 200 miles run? Tia!

[Jocko]

I think you edited my quote as well culzean, I never wrote that bit about ratchet clicking! 

You should never edit a quote, not even spelling mistakes. culzean. I think you had better edit your post to reflect the truth.

[sparky Paul]

I just realised today the hand break has very little or no resistant at all even I pull it up all the way. Ive tested the handbrake car facing downhill with the gear on N.

How many clicks does it go up?

Rear pads normally take a few hundred miles of normal driving to fully bed in, less if new discs are also fitted.

With new discs and pads fitted, you should see completely even wear appearing on the face of the discs. If the discs continue to wear unevenly, you could have a seizing caliper, seized slider pin/s, or scale left on the carrier is causing the new pads to stick. This can also interfere with the handbrake auto adjustment.