Author Topic: FUEL  (Read 1656 times)

equaliser

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2020, 05:46:41 PM »
I occasionally put premium (Shell VPower usually) in the tank. Maybe every 5 or 6 fill ups. I do it for the alleged cleaning properties, figuring it will help keep the engine internals a little cleaner.

I've not noticed any apparent performance or MPG change. If the engine is not tuned to make use of higher RON fuel and tighter timings (which I don't believe it is), then there's no way you will gain any extra performance?

I'm sure you're right about the earlier Jazz engines but the MK3 with it's high compression and knock sensors certainly does alter the tune for higher octane, you can see it clearly advancing the ignition further compared to 95RON if you monitor the timings like I do with the ODBII Car Scanner app. As for alleged cleaning abilities, that remains to be seen but it can't hurt!

Jocko

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2020, 05:58:50 PM »
The Mk 1 does too. ScanGauge shows that. But the improvement doesn't justify the cost as far as I an concerned.

peteo48

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2020, 10:53:25 AM »
I occasionally put premium (Shell VPower usually) in the tank. Maybe every 5 or 6 fill ups. I do it for the alleged cleaning properties, figuring it will help keep the engine internals a little cleaner.

I've not noticed any apparent performance or MPG change. If the engine is not tuned to make use of higher RON fuel and tighter timings (which I don't believe it is), then there's no way you will gain any extra performance?

I'm sure you're right about the earlier Jazz engines but the MK3 with it's high compression and knock sensors certainly does alter the tune for higher octane, you can see it clearly advancing the ignition further compared to 95RON if you monitor the timings like I do with the ODBII Car Scanner app. As for alleged cleaning abilities, that remains to be seen but it can't hurt!

Really interesting. I've been looking for proof, one way or the other, for some time. My low mileage means I fill up less than once a month and, frequently, when the tank is nowhere near empty if there is an offer going on. The extra cost is insignificant if you don't do many miles. I'd think differently if I was still doing 10,000 miles a year but I've only done 2100 since January.

On premium fuels, John Cadogan did a You Tube video about Toyota and other hybrids needing premium fuel. In Australia the bog standard fuel is 91 and 95 is seen as premium so I'm sure using our 95 petrol won't do any harm.

equaliser

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2020, 03:45:53 PM »
Really interesting. I've been looking for proof, one way or the other, for some time. My low mileage means I fill up less than once a month and, frequently, when the tank is nowhere near empty if there is an offer going on. The extra cost is insignificant if you don't do many miles. I'd think differently if I was still doing 10,000 miles a year but I've only done 2100 since January.

On premium fuels, John Cadogan did a You Tube video about Toyota and other hybrids needing premium fuel. In Australia the bog standard fuel is 91 and 95 is seen as premium so I'm sure using our 95 petrol won't do any harm.

Certainly nothing wrong with 95RON, as you say it's more premium than other countries. If I was you and not doing a lot of miles then I would use the higher RON petrol as it won't degrade as quickly as the the lower RON when left sitting in your tank, just a thought!

Jocko

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2020, 04:22:03 PM »
From Wiki.

Australia: "regular" unleaded fuel is 91 RON, "premium" unleaded with 95 RON is widely available, and 98 RON fuel is also reasonably common. Shell used to sell 100 RON fuel (5% ethanol content) from a small number of service stations, most of which are located in major cities (stopped in August 2008). United Petroleum used to sell 100 RON unleaded fuel (10% ethanol content) at a small number of its service stations (originally only two, but then expanded to 67 outlets nationwide) (stopped in September 2014). All fuel in Australia is unleaded except for some aviation fuels. E85 unleaded fuel is also available at several United service stations across the country. Recently E10 fuel has become quite common, and is available at almost every major fuel station, except in Western Australia. The Australian government makes stations advertise E10 as 94 RON.

degzi

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2020, 01:23:17 AM »
If you notice a difference then your ready for a service.

Clean and gap your plugs and get a new air filter. You can wash your old air filter and re-use once dry.

Should be done every 6months to keep in tip top condition.






knobbly

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2021, 01:03:56 PM »
Excuse me reviving this thread, this may be useful.

Running a 1.9tdi Fabia, almost on 100% supermarket fuel the engine was lumpy, especially at the low revs.  After  advice from Honest John, who I  found to be very good(a fan of all Jazz models too) I used regular BP diesel. After the first fills the engine was smoother allowing a higher gear sooner.  Pulling smoothly 300 rpm sooner, may not seem much, but at town speeds it makes a difference.  With MPG over a considerable time over all types of journeys there was an improvement. Previously giving 58-60mpg during warmer months, it improved to 60-64mpg. The car is  more pleasant to drive and well worth a cost if there is no saving, as the gearbox and engine get an easier time.

In addition, I mistakenly put 16L of petrol in before topping up with diesel and 2 stroke oil for the injectors.  It ran  quite roughly for the next 600 miles as I topped up with diesel when I could.  It then ran as new on a 140k engine.  Its now on 178K and runs wonderfully, its a shame that the electrics are not the same!  So for PD engines the sometimes prescribed method of a gallon petrol does work.  These are the only engines where this is a good idea, the injectors are lubed by engine oil and not reliant on the lubricating properties of the diesel itself.

Jocko

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2021, 04:39:27 PM »
They do reckon that premium diesel makes a more significant difference than premium petrol. Have you tried reverting to supermarket diesel to see if your petrol incident maybe cleaned things out?

knobbly

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2021, 10:46:45 PM »
Jocko

I have been forced to use supermarket fuel a few time since(5yrs ago) and found the engine lumpier.  There was of course contamination of one into the other, so it was not scientific and really requires a long term test.  That I have kept using branded diesel, now Esso at the same garage is testament in itself. Especially as I am tight as your nationality suggests you are!

Nigel

Kremmen

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2021, 05:23:36 AM »
Round me Esso and Tesco is the same stuff. Many a time I've seen Esso tankers topping up Tesco pumps.

Also, you get Tesco clubcard points at Esso stations so there is a link.

I've been using Tesco jollop for decades and never had a single issue, cars have run perfectly.
Let's be careful out there!

peteo48

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2021, 11:54:33 AM »
Round me Esso and Tesco is the same stuff. Many a time I've seen Esso tankers topping up Tesco pumps.

Also, you get Tesco clubcard points at Esso stations so there is a link.

I've been using Tesco jollop for decades and never had a single issue, cars have run perfectly.

I'm trying to work out when I became exercised by the fuel issue. For years and years I used mostly supermarket fuel (95 RON) with no ill effect on a large number of different cars. The 2 diesels I owned (both VW - a Bora and later a Golf) were also run on Tesco diesel. I genuinely didn't give it a thought although I have always been scrupulous in getting the car serviced on time.

I reckon it's since I retired! It was about the same time that I became obsessed with wash sponges causing swirl marks on the paint. I've now got a shed full of car care products!

The devil finds work for idle minds?

On fuel I think Kremmen and VicW have it right. Common sense and my own experience should tell me that using supermarket fuel is not harmful. 

zzaj

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2021, 03:46:09 PM »
All petrol and diesel is produced by everyone to a set regulated specification for a particular standard e.g. 95RON, 99RON etc.
 
Whether it be branded Shell, Esso, BP, Morrison, Sainsbury, Apple, Chevron, Tesco or whoever, the base product is exactly the same.  The only difference between brands is the additives each brand adds.

The supplier and distributor for Tesco and Esso fuels is the same. The additives will be different.

https://www.greenergy.com

Greenergy is the distributor in UK for Esso.
 
https://www.greenergy.com/esso

Tesco is a major shareholder in Greenergy, the distributor for the Esso brand.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/28/tesco-petrol-retail-industry

I am not sure any oil majors now do their own distribution of the finished product or even refine it for their own exclusive sale as they used to or now even own their own refineries. Think Ineos.

So the refining and distribution of fuel is now an open secondary market not operated by the oil majors. Most of the oil majors now only franchise out their brands to retail site owners.

And there is a very close distribution relationship between Tesco and Esso via Greenergy. Same unliveried tankers I expect.

All base petrol and diesel fuel is exactly the same. Different brands add different additives when the tanker is loaded at the common distribution source for delivery to their own branded retail sites. So an Esso liveried tanker may deliver to Tesco. If it is delivering to Tesco, it is not delivering Esso fuel!

(Geenergy are also working with Shell on the Thames Oil Port:

"Thames Oilport
We are building Thames Oilport on the site of the former Coryton refinery in the UK, as a joint venture with Shell. We are turning the former refinery into a modern import [distibution] terminal capable of meeting growing fuel demand in the South East of England".)

https://www.greenergy.com/manufacturing-and-infrastructure

Hope all that makes sense! Nothing is what it seems!

You pays your money and takes you choice.



Greenergy used to publish the analysis of their base products on their website – they may still do.

You’ll have to work very hard to find which brands add what additives and what they do (mostly detergents IIRC)!

knobbly

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2021, 09:33:37 AM »
There is more to this than just the power/mpg equation.  Just because your car runs ok does not it is running optimally.  If you are doing lots of short runs, there will be lots of residue from incomplete combustion which will build up.  There is a reason that some cars suffer from EGR problems and give worse MPG figures.  It is my feeling that there is a build up in injectors and Egr depending on Fuel. Oil and journey length.  The infamous Italian tune-up does help, so there is a basis for this and not just a gut feeling.
In the motorbike world, there were famous cases where the early Firebaldes gave more power if they were worked from the off.  There were many cases to confirm and  5-8% power gain, so not just a whim.

There is a parallel here with the infamous Input shaft bearing. Some wear, some don't, yet Honda products are very consistent.  I would love to know what is the variable factor, my guess is high revs in lower gears with little load.  I cannot imagine it is load related as the demographics suggest Jazz owners are more mature in age and driving habits!!!!

Westy36

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2021, 09:59:48 AM »
In the motorbike world, there were famous cases where the early Firebaldes gave more power if they were worked from the off.  There were many cases to confirm and  5-8% power gain, so not just a whim.
I've heard this before. The only brand new machine I've ever had was a Suzuki Bandit in '98. I followed the running in process to the letter, but some bikers swear that if you just use it fully from day one it will be more powerful !!

richardfrost

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Re: FUEL
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2021, 10:51:22 AM »
In the motorbike world, there were famous cases where the early Firebaldes gave more power if they were worked from the off.  There were many cases to confirm and  5-8% power gain, so not just a whim.
I've heard this before. The only brand new machine I've ever had was a Suzuki Bandit in '98. I followed the running in process to the letter, but some bikers swear that if you just use it fully from day one it will be more powerful !!
I have long believed that the days of 'running in' an engine are behind us. I was advised back in the '80s just to take it easy for the first 250 miles until all the fluids have been 'splashed about a bit' and then you're good to go.

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