Author Topic: Sticking Rear Brake Pads  (Read 676 times)

TnTkr

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2020, 01:27:47 PM »
I suspect the Jazz weight distribution with a petrol tank under the floor - which no other car of its size has as far as I know -  and anti dive suspension  may play a part in the decision kaming on rear brake choice..

The very same GK Jazz/Fit has been with rear drum brakes in other market areas (e.g. North America, which has only 130 hp version). I'd guess it's more about fashion and maybe AHA (Agile Handling Assist) system, which loads rear brakes.

Ed the Jazz

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2020, 10:37:02 PM »
Brake pads 'sticking on' after washing the car or after rain was an issue with my 2004 Jazz and my 2016. On a night my car is garaged with hand brake off and in Park. Front and back pads will 'stick' certainly overnight and release with a 'crack'! Once driven a few hundred yards pafs run free. Just one of those things. Honda tried to stop this on CB750 motorbike by using chromed discs - worked but swine when the chrome worn.

Jocko

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2020, 11:03:42 PM »
Sometimes if the car has been put away after driving in heavy rain, and left for two or three days, it feels like I am trying to drive out the garage with the handbrake engaged. The crack when it frees up is loud. Even my wife, standing outside the garage, has said: "What was that".
With regards chromed discs on bikes, they look great but are less efficient in the wet, and as you said, once the chrome starts to go...............

TnTkr

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2020, 05:58:33 AM »
Sticking brake pads after wash or rain is quite normal behaviour for disc brakes. Pad has slight contact with the disc all the time and rust bonds them together. The only thing to pull pad away from the disc is piston seal, but that is depending on the seal design.

sparky Paul

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2020, 01:29:17 PM »
Sticking brake pads after wash or rain is quite normal behaviour for disc brakes. Pad has slight contact with the disc all the time and rust bonds them together. The only thing to pull pad away from the disc is piston seal, but that is depending on the seal design.

The rear handbrake is actually a mechanical arrangement that positively winds the piston back in a little as the handbrake is released. However, the pads are not securely attached to the pistons...

The Jazz rear calipers do seem to be more prone than most to this disc handbrake 'sticking'.

TnTkr

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2020, 01:33:59 PM »
The rear handbrake is actually a mechanical arrangement that positively winds the piston back in a little as the handbrake is released. However, the pads are not securely attached to the pistons...

The Jazz rear calipers do seem to be more prone than most to this disc handbrake 'sticking'.

That is interesting information. I need to study the mechanism deeper to see how that is made.

John Ratsey

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2020, 06:38:16 PM »
With regards chromed discs on bikes, they look great but are less efficient in the wet, and as you said, once the chrome starts to go...............
The brake discs on my bike look like stainless steel.

culzean

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2020, 07:21:53 AM »
With regards chromed discs on bikes, they look great but are less efficient in the wet, and as you said, once the chrome starts to go...............
The brake discs on my bike look like stainless steel.

To be fair the discs on my motorbike look like stainless as well,  but the rear wheel has a disc almost the size rear one on the Jazz, and the front wheel has two large ones as well - so roughly 2/3  the braking area of a Jazz on something that weighs less than 200Kg  - but with less tyre area in contact with the road ( bike also has ABS ) - so friction not so important.  Because of limited space for discs on a small car that has maybe 14" wheels as an option they have to use plain steel or cast iron to get better friction ( and a slightly rusty surface has more friction than a clean one ).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Rory

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2020, 10:38:35 AM »
On both of our mk2's we had the rear disks and pads replace at around 3yrs old.  First one was really just because they looked terrible as they'd gone so rusty - I understand Honda and the dealer (now defunct, sadly) covered the cost between them.  Supposedly they upped the rear brake bias on later models.

On our newer mk2, one of the inner pads stuck and wore away.  Honda not interested and new dealer delighted in taking 300 off daughter to replace the discs and pads (and that was after two visits as they couldn't identify the noise first visit, sending her away saying the car was fine).

jazzaro

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2020, 10:54:05 AM »
With regards chromed discs on bikes, they look great but are less efficient in the wet, and as you said, once the chrome starts to go...............
The brake discs on my bike look like stainless steel.

To be fair the discs on my motorbike look like stainless as well,  but the rear wheel has a disc almost the size rear one on the Jazz, and the front wheel has two large ones as well - so roughly 2/3  the braking area of a Jazz on something that weighs less than 200Kg  - but with less tyre area in contact with the road ( bike also has ABS ) - so friction not so important.  Because of limited space for discs on a small car that has maybe 14" wheels as an option they have to use plain steel or cast iron to get better friction ( and a slightly rusty surface has more friction than a clean one ).
Car brake discs are all in cast iron (low carbon percentage), apart from some supercars with carbon-carbon or carbon-ceramic composite. Some discs for karting and motorbikes are made in steel, but it's not frequent. Steel is lighter than cast iron, but it works at higher temperatures so you have to increase pressure to the lever and pads last less kilometers.
Bike discs are different in shape and structure from car discs. They are drilled, both for better cooling but also to increase friction and so to remove the hard skin on pads after kilometers of very gentle usage. A bike is light, so you don't need a huge pressure on the lever, so it can happen that a very hard skin like glass creates on pads surface, with a low friction coefficient: holes on the disc help to avoid this skin creation.
Car discs are very thicker, the pressure sent to pads is much higher considering servo and the pedal lever. So discs must be more robust (and cast iron is more robust than steel at high temperature), and can be casted with a internal duct to vent and cool them.
The rust on the friction surface is standard in wet climate and does not affects functionality. After the first brake pressure the surface becomes clean again.

Rory

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Re: Sticking Rear Brake Pads
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2020, 10:14:24 AM »

The rust on the friction surface is standard in wet climate and does not affects functionality. After the first brake pressure the surface becomes clean again.

They can be made to be rust resistant - GM do it in the US as they were getting so many customer complaints.

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