Author Topic: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive  (Read 1354 times)

jazzaro

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2020, 11:12:47 PM »
However, the tilting mirrors must just be a software configuration, so why turn it off for our market?
Probably a patent pending... It would be nice to know who is the owner of this patent and the price for manufacturers to include this feature in a precise car in a precise market..

richardfrost

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2020, 09:50:25 AM »
I don't think I've previously commented on the tilting wing mirror(s) feature (mirror(s) tilt downwards when reversing - very useful for seeing where the wheels are in relation to the kerb or white lines). Until about a week ago this was included in the Crosstar specification but was absent on the vehicle I drove.
Having said what I said in my previous post, I seem to remember that in the CRV (or was it the HRV) you had to have the mirror adjustment selector switch set to the mirror you wanted to dip, for it to work. So clearly it would be pressed for the left mirror on most occasions. Maybe the Crossbar has the same foible?
You are correct as far as the HR-V goes Richard, although it only works for the left mirror.

Ah it was the HRV. I suspect that it could be 'turned on' in a newer model Crosstar as part of the uplifting of features. Seems pathetic to me not not have it configured. Or maybe it is and no-one realises.

Would be interesting if Mr Ratsey can find out next time he has the opportunity. Or maybe he already did, since I think he has an HRV at the moment. I am following his adventures closely as we have had similar experiences with the HRV and Jazz and whilst he stuck with his I dumped mine for the RAV4 Hybrid. The Toyota is now too big a car for me really and will be approaching the end of the 5 Year Warranty next year, around about the time when I might be able to pick up a low mileage Jazz or Crosstar.

John Ratsey

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2020, 12:26:42 PM »
Ah it was the HRV. I suspect that it could be 'turned on' in a newer model Crosstar as part of the uplifting of features. Seems pathetic to me not not have it configured. Or maybe it is and no-one realises.

Would be interesting if Mr Ratsey can find out next time he has the opportunity. Or maybe he already did, since I think he has an HRV at the moment. I am following his adventures closely as we have had similar experiences with the HRV and Jazz and whilst he stuck with his I dumped mine for the RAV4 Hybrid. The Toyota is now too big a car for me really and will be approaching the end of the 5 Year Warranty next year, around about the time when I might be able to pick up a low mileage Jazz or Crosstar.
I suspect that the mirror tilt is hardware (ie an extra motor) as software would require keeping track of the number of turns of a shaft on a motor to (i) do the tilting and (ii) return the mirror to the driver's preferred setting. Anyway, it's a useful feature on the HR-V and was, until the beginning of last week, was an advertised feature of the Crosstar.

My initial question to the dealer was whether the tilting was for one or both mirrors as the specs indicated plural and a quick test on the vehicle indicated neither. The dealer checked with Honda who confirmed that this feature was not included and their published specs were being updated. Annoying, but not a show-stopper. The reversing camera should be able to provide some visual guidance and this might be Honda's reason for not including the mirror tilt.

I don't think I previously posted my photo of the Crosstar boot. It's a size smaller than the HR-V and the forward part of the boot floor is slightly higher than the rest so it's not completely flat. I presume that this is a design compromise to give maximum capacity while avoiding a step when the rear seats are put flat. There's also a cubby hole under the boot floor near the bumper which I expect I'll fill with a few emergency items. Perhaps Honda should have put their tool kit there rather at the boot side (same as the Mk 3) which would add a few inches to themaximum boot width.

A few ex-demonstrators have been put on Honda's used vehicle site https://usedcars.honda.co.uk/en/used-cars/approved-cars/all-brands/all-models but most are more expensive than brand new vehicles (do the dealers know something that we don't?) although a white Jazz EX for 19,900 might interest someone.

JazzandJag

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2020, 11:09:32 AM »
Quote from: John Ratsey link=topic=12141.msg83961#msg83961 date=1592998002
A few ex-demonstrators have been put on Honda's used vehicle site [url
https://usedcars.honda.co.uk/en/used-cars/approved-cars/all-brands/all-models[/url] but most are more expensive than brand new vehicles (do the dealers know something that we don't?) although a white Jazz EX for 19,900 might interest someone.

Listers have two EXs listed from 18190 and a Crosstar at  20095, both seem to be considerably cheaper than other dealers - might be of interest to someone.

John Ratsey

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2020, 06:09:06 PM »
Listers have two EXs listed from 18190 and a Crosstar at  20095, both seem to be considerably cheaper than other dealers - might be of interest to someone.
I saw those very reasonable prices more typical of ex-demonstrators (but may be offset by less generous trade-in prices for those who want to do that. However, I'm a bit far down the road of buying a new one - my dealer has now been allocated a VIN and is now expecting to get a delivery date within a few days.

John Ratsey

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2020, 03:08:02 PM »
Listers have two EXs listed from 18190 and a Crosstar at  20095, both seem to be considerably cheaper than other dealers - might be of interest to someone.
I think Listers realised that they were out of line on the pricing compared with the other dealers. Their two Jazz EXs are now priced at 21995 and the Crosstar is 22995.

madasafish

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jazzaro

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2020, 03:40:10 PM »
Testdrive with consumption from Quattroruote, the most important italian automotive newspaper.

Three data, the first is about a 2015 1.3 16v 6m mk3, the second about a 2020 Jazz Elegance hybrid, the third about a Crrosstar hybrid.

City 14,5 - 30,8 - 25,8km/l
State road 17,4 - 25,9 - 22,4 km/l
Highway 14,8 - 15 - 14,5 km/l

Vmax 174,5km/h (Crosstar)
0-100km/h 9,6s (Crosstar)
70-120km/h in D 9,7s (Crosstar)
Steering pad 0,87g (Crosstar)
100-0km/h 43,5mt

Very good acceleration and safety ADAS (tested, they work fine), so-so brakes and handling due to tires.
Better comfort on potholes compared to the GK3. Soundproof is very similar to the MK3 at stable run, noisier when accelerating.
The trunk loses 73 liters compared to the GK3, most of them under the trunk floor, cabin is unchanged.

Note how the Crosstar consumption is 17% higher in city cycle and 13% higher in state road cycle, while in highway is only 3% more than the standard Jazz.






« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 03:55:48 PM by jazzaro »

John Ratsey

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2020, 04:48:34 PM »
Testdrive with consumption from Quattroruote, the most important italian automotive newspaper.

Note how the Crosstar consumption is 17% higher in city cycle and 13% higher in state road cycle, while in highway is only 3% more than the standard Jazz.
Those fuel consumption results follow the same pattern as the WLTP tests, but are more extreme. ie the Crosstar is about 8% thirstier than the EX in the urban test cycle, 7% higher in the Extra High cycle but less difference in the other two. I can understand the Crosstar being less economical at higher speed as the extra height and the roof rails worsen the aerodynamics. However, I can't understand why the Crosstar should be significantly thirstier than the normal Jazz in urban traffic. The Crosstar is a bit (1 - 2%) heavier which will make a small difference, but what else?

The WLTP test results show that the fuel consumption of any of the new Jazzes increases substantially in the Extra High cycle which, I suspect, is caused by the engine having to operate outside its most efficient zone in order to deliver enough power plus the relatively high vehicle isn't as aerodynamic as many of the nominal competitors (which don't have the same internal capacity). It's possible that the selection of gear ratio for the direct drive mode is chosen for optimal overall efficiency at a gearing lower than top gear in a Mk 3 Jazz. That's something I can try to figure out once I have my Crosstar.

jazzaro

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2020, 08:18:48 AM »
Testdrive with consumption from Quattroruote, the most important italian automotive newspaper.

Note how the Crosstar consumption is 17% higher in city cycle and 13% higher in state road cycle, while in highway is only 3% more than the standard Jazz.
Those fuel consumption results follow the same pattern as the WLTP tests, but are more extreme. ie the Crosstar is about 8% thirstier than the EX in the urban test cycle, 7% higher in the Extra High cycle but less difference in the other two. I can understand the Crosstar being less economical at higher speed as the extra height and the roof rails worsen the aerodynamics. However, I can't understand why the Crosstar should be significantly thirstier than the normal Jazz in urban traffic. The Crosstar is a bit (1 - 2%) heavier which will make a small difference, but what else?
QR talks about tire type and size: Crosstar has a 185/60 R16' while the other Jazz have 185/60R15' (or 185/55R16'),  the diameter is higher so the real final gear ratio is longer and maybe this affects efficiency.
Note: they say that the Crosstar is 30mm taller than the standard, well, 12mm come from different tire size.

Quote
The WLTP test results show that the fuel consumption of any of the new Jazzes increases substantially in the Extra High cycle which, I suspect, is caused by the engine having to operate outside its most efficient zone in order to deliver enough power plus the relatively high vehicle isn't as aerodynamic as many of the nominal competitors (which don't have the same internal capacity). It's possible that the selection of gear ratio for the direct drive mode is chosen for optimal overall efficiency at a gearing lower than top gear in a Mk 3 Jazz. That's something I can try to figure out once I have my Crosstar.
At lower speeds the engine works in optimal range or stays off  if possible, at higher speed the engine works in not so optimal conditions and it always works. Unfortunately the article does not mention the RPM at stable 100 and 130km/h (our highway speed limit), and does not talk about how and when the clutch engages and disengages, this would have been an interesting info.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 10:51:53 AM by jazzaro »

BigRon

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #25 on: Today at 02:59:59 PM »
Last week I managed to test the Crosstar from my local dealer. I really enjoyed the drive, since I have known the General Manager for more than 15 years picked the Crosstar at 5.00pm and returned it at 8.00am which allowed me to put 130 miles on the car. Drove mainly on motorway and dual carriageway at around 60 which did drop the mpg down to 56 as against John Ratsuy's figures in the 70's. Had another drive later that day driving around town and mpg was in the high 60's.

My last few cars had blind spot/cross traffic which I found really useful, but for some reason Honda in its infinite wisdom decided that is was a feature in the Honda Jazz EX but not the Crosstar. Have contacted the worshop supervisor at the dealer's to see if it can be retrofitted to the Crosstar. Awaiting Honda Tech Support to reply. (I also test drove the Jazz EX which I also liked but preferred the Crosstar.)

On Wednesday ordered a Crosstar Two Tone Premium Crystal Red Metallic, delivery at the moment is 12th August. Didn't manage to get any discount which is not surprising but 1st service FOC, 50% discount 2nd and 3rd service (don't normally keep my cars for more than 3 years and couldn't get any discount on the 5 year service plan), FOC DiamondBrite and swapping over front and rear dash cams FOC.

John Ratsey

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Re: Jazz Crosstar Test Drive
« Reply #26 on: Today at 03:48:45 PM »
Drove mainly on motorway and dual carriageway at around 60 which did drop the mpg down to 56 as against John Ratsuy's figures in the 70's. Had another drive later that day driving around town and mpg was in the high 60's.
I'm hoping for at least 60 mpg at 60mph steady cruising since my HR-V is somewhere close to that under favourable conditions but I expect the mpg to drop very quickly when above about 60. The two factors which should help the Crosstar motorway mpg relative to the HR-V are (i) the more efficient Atkinson cycle engine and (ii) no CVT transmission inefficiency. However, if your test drive involved driving at 60mph into even a moderate wind then that could significantly hit the mpg (a 15mph head wind creates wind drag equivalent to driving at 75mph in still air). Wet roads also don't help the fuel efficiency. My test drive was on a fairly calm, dry and warm day.

PS: I've just had confirmation that my Crosstar has finally been delivered to the dealer but I now have to wait until next Thursday to get the keys.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:04:47 PM by John Ratsey »

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